Episode 330: Tisha Poncio & Rick Butterworth

Fonz Mendoza: 0:30

Hello everybody and welcome to another great episode of my EdTech Life. Thank you so much for joining me on this wonderful day and, wherever it is that you're joining us from around the world, thank you, as always, for all of your support. As you know, we do what we do for you to bring you some amazing conversations with amazing educators. And today I am so excited to welcome two of my favorite people. I had the opportunity recently to be on their podcast and now they get to be on my podcast. I get to drill them with questions now. But I am so excited to welcome to the show today a great great friend, tisha Poncio, and a new wonderful great friend that I've had the pleasure of speaking with, and just you.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:14

We're going to be talking about a wonderful project that both of you got together to do. That you know. I know when you work in silence, it's things that you're doing, some great things, and all of a sudden I kind of see you guys kind of drop off a little bit and then all of a sudden it's like bam today's learners, tomorrow's leaders is here and I'm excited to get that conversation going so all our audience members can know about the amazing work you did through this book. So let's go ahead and dive in, but before we get into it, really, really into our in-depth conversation, actually for our audience members that are listening to this episode and may not be familiar with your work just yet, I'm going to ask each of you to give us a little brief introduction and what your context is within the education space. So we'll start off with you, tisha. Give us a little brief intro and what your context is in the ed space.

Tisha Poncio: 2:20

So I was a teacher for over 20 years. I started teaching, actually when I was 18. And so I've always been a teacher, no matter what I'm doing. I taught in a public school in Texas for the entirety of my career and then, because of my students and a project that we were working on in my classroom, it led me to a tool called Wakelet, and that tool Wakelet really transformed and redefined my entire thought process. In my classroom, with my students, my students began leading, and then I started working with the Wakelet team and officially started working with them in 2021. And I was. I had all sorts of titles, but, as you know, titles really don't mean anything because you're still passionately doing what you believe in. So I was working with educators and students globally. That actually then led me to meet Smart and Lumio. So I am now at the Smart and Lumio team as a lead of education and community, but at the heart of all of that, it's all about empowering students and teachers and really just empowering people.

Fonz Mendoza: 3:33

Excellent, and I can definitely attest to that, tisha, because the last time you were on the show, I mean, that's really what we talked about and you can definitely hear the passion and obviously about the work that you're doing and how you really worked with empowering your students and now you get the opportunity to empower educators too. All the while that trickles down, still, to empowering students so awesome. Now, rick, on to you. I would love to hear your you know little brief intro and then, of course, your context. I know your road is a little different, but not quite still a lot of similarities, but I'm just really excited to for our audience members to get to know you a little bit more too. Yeah, thanks.

Rick Butterworth: 4:13

Fonz. So, yeah, I was one of the founding members of Wakelet, where Tish joined us later on. So I started that back in 2011 as a designer front-end developer and over the years, really, as as Tish says I've had numerous roles at the company. I've done day-to-day operations, product management, I've joined a couple of webinars with Tish from the marketing side, but my core focus has always been around product developing, the product enhancing the user experience for, for educators around the world, and then about who would be two, three months ago. Now, end of april, um, I stepped down from that uh position and focused more on our book and, obviously, our podcast, as, as you mentioned, fonz, and, yeah, just trying to empower as many educators worldwide, excellent.

Fonz Mendoza: 5:11

Well, I'm really excited because I know that in the short span that you have put the book out, I know it has received definitely a lot of attention. I know that you, especially at ISTE recently, you know you definitely had a lot of presentations there. The book is out and I'm just really excited to dig in deep because, as you know, like every idea has an origin story. So I would definitely love to get started with the origin story of this book. So, rick, I'm going to go ahead and start off with you and then that way you can give us a little you know idea of how you and Tish got together and said hey, you know what, let's put our ideas together and let's make this wonderful product, this wonderful book for our educators, out there.

Rick Butterworth: 5:59

Yeah, so I mean, tish has the longer version of this story because she was the one that really had it initially, but I won't spoil the fun from her side because it was definitely a journey. But really, we both went to ISTE 2023. It was my first time going to ISTE. It was my second conference I'd been to. I'd been to and Tish had mentioned that ISTE had approached her about a book and wanted me to to come along to say see what was actually going on with it, and we went down.

Rick Butterworth: 6:33

I think we went for breakfast, um, with our editor and, yeah, they were passionate about the things that Tish has done, because her background is incredible, her experiences and what she brings to the table is amazing, and we realized that with her experience as an educator and with my entrepreneurial skills, we realized that's where the book really came to become a reality. Really. And for myself, I'm dyslexic. Tisha's also also neurodivergent. I will also let her go into all that. I won't spoil that, uh. But we realize that we have a common ground, uh, some similar visions, similar passions, and we wanted to create something that isn't tool focused. There's more around the process. That's more about the educators in the classroom. What can they do right now and that's what we wanted to really lead with within the book itself and from there it was literally just one after the other different ideas that were coming to fruition. We'd already got loads of different visions of how the book can be presented, but it really started to mold itself as we progressed through it and having things like digital portfolios, which is massive for Wakelet and Tish's.

Rick Butterworth: 8:00

I will say it, she is like the central point of digital portfolios. She is shaking her head and I know why, but I will say it. She is like the central point of digital portfolio. She is shaking her head and I know why, but I will say it.

Rick Butterworth: 8:08

And there was a lot of things that we both learned in ourselves with regards to feedback and reflection, student success and the challenges that both of us had had even when we were at school as students that we had to face. And for me, one of the biggest things that I learned from TCA was, I thought, being dyslexic. I thought I was the only one, I thought I was the person that was always falling behind, didn't understand the things in the same way to my peers, but I realized massively at that point that I'm not the only one. There are so many people out there that are essentially falling behind because they don't understand what is actually the challenges for them and what their actual strengths are. So that's what we tried to really hone in on to ensure that every student, they are a leader, they can be successful and they can go on from the classroom and beyond into into their working life.

Rick Butterworth: 9:07

So I love really the passion behind the book.

Fonz Mendoza: 9:10

I love it. I love it, and there's so many things that I can see how, what you bring, and definitely what Tisha has brings with her years of experience, I mean it just makes sense now. I mean just getting to hear just this backstory. So, t Tish, I want to come to you too, you know. Obviously I want to hear you know where this idea came from because, again, knowing how passionate you are and how vocal you are about education and not and I say that in a very respectful manner because we definitely appreciate it I know I have been a longtime follower of your work, so tell me again just how this idea came about. I know Rick gave us a little bit on his side, but now how these two worlds married to come up with this wonderful book.

Tisha Poncio: 10:43

I don't know, alfonso Fonz, I don't know if you're ready for my answer here, like you guys are, like Fonz, I don't know if you're ready for my answer here. Like you guys are like, just chill, and I'm like, I'm like a horse, a horse ready to like go out of the gate. Here's the thing. First of all, I want I, for the first time ever, I'm going to address something and, as you guys were talking, it just kept coming back up multiple times, back up multiple times. I have been asked, rick has been asked what does Rick bring to this book?

Tisha Poncio: 11:18

Because he's not an educator, and I'm just going to say, first of all I want to address that, because that's kind of how this book came about I had the foundation, I had the knowledge, I was an educator in the classroom, I was creating the classroom that operated like a business, but I was not a business owner and I was not an entrepreneur in the sense that everybody sees an entrepreneur. I didn't have all of those skills. If you had thrown me into a CEO meeting with someone and told me to do, you know, an executive summary, I would have had no idea what you're talking about. I didn't know the back end of that, and so I get really passionate about this, because we have been asked by multiple people that we have admired what do you guys bring to the table? Like you know, we know Tisha knows this, but what do you know? Here's the thing I am so tired of people being divisive in any capacity, right, of people being divisive in any capacity, right. So what I want to say to that, and my challenge to the listeners, is, instead of looking at things in that way, like I'm the expert of this thing and you aren't, so what could we possibly do together? Like I really think we need to start looking at all of our roles, our skills, our experiences and how do we, as you say, marry them together to create something bigger. And I think that's really where Rick and I look at things completely differently than everyone else. We are neurodivergent. Now, I didn't know that when I was teaching, I didn't know that when I was working at Wakelet in the beginning, but as I started understanding neurodivergency and how our brains think, it made complete sense why Rick and I were aligned on, you know, our school experiences, on even our work experiences, on the passion that we had for students, those students that haven't figured out how to play the game because their brains don't think like the game. I think that is where our passion comes in. It's all about pushing back.

Tisha Poncio: 13:15

This entire book is about pushing back on the old systems that have been in place that do not serve all the people. That's essentially what the book is about, and it is going to challenge you, if you're reading it, as a student, a leader, a teacher, an instructional coach. It is going to challenge you. I had someone actually tell me the other day because they've been reading it. You know, tisha, there's not like. There isn't a ton of like. Oh my god, I never knew that things in this book.

Tisha Poncio: 13:44

We really have just pulled it together and said you know all of these things, you are aware of them. How are you putting them together for a powerhouse for your students to launch them into the world? That is a reality right now and so that's really it. We're just bringing everybody back to the foundations. I mean, we're not trying to claim that we know every ed tech tool that there is and how to implement it into your particular classroom. What we are saying is you, as an educator, you are an entrepreneur. I know that now I've learned those skills.

Tisha Poncio: 14:16

We have written this book for educators so that they can model for their students how to become entrepreneurs and leaders, and it has to start with the educators. So this book is, they told me, so funny. I was like I want it for everyone, and they were like no, just for a specific group. And I was like, okay, but it's for everybody. And they were like no. So it is labeled high school and middle school teachers. That is the audience. But I will tell you it doesn't matter who picks up the book. There is going to be, on any particular page, something for you to take away, whether you are in middle school or elementary school, whether you're a PE teacher with a group of PE students. It really should work for anybody. And so I'm very passionate about this because, as we were writing it, I told Rick, I said this entire idea pushes back on education today and yesterday and a hundred years ago, right. So that's where it really came together the passion for us to kind of change how people were doing things in the classroom Excellent.

Fonz Mendoza: 15:24

Now I want to add to that because I know, like you said, you know, a lot of people may think those things initially. You know like, hey, you know a lot of people may think those things initially. You know, like, hey, you're the educator. And then, of course, like you made the comment, what does Rick add to it? And I am one of those that I will stand by you and saying like, hey, I never wanted to be an educator, I came in from business, I came in with a marketing degree into education. I fell into education, fell in love with education, and so I see things very different but very similar to the way that you see it, where I am always kind of customer service oriented. So my students that's who I care about the most, knowing that not every single one of them is going to buy the subject matter in the exact same way, I need to sell it to them differently, and so I can see that entrepreneur spirit in me coming into the classroom and applying that into teaching and then, of course, teaching that to the students as well. I think it's magical and I think that there are quite a few. Maybe there is a larger group, but I always see that it's usually kind of just a small group of us that may see things in a very different light, and sometimes it it bothers people that we see things differently because I'm like, well, I'm an outside the box thinker. I'm like you said you, like you said you're you're that horse that's ready to take off. I'm like that corvette that they keep in the garage and every once in a while they'll let me go ahead and do you know some some cool tricks, but then they put me back into the garage because they don't like, you know, to be uncomfortable. And then, going back to your book, I really do agree with you and say that this is for all, all grade levels, not just middle school and high school, because even as an elementary teacher, when I was doing sixth grade and I was doing fifth grade, we would have projects we would do. You know, students would give presentations, they would have to prove their case, and empowering students and giving them voice is something that's so important, which I want to talk to next. So this was a nice segue into the classroom reality.

Fonz Mendoza: 17:31

One thing that you talked about is all of the tech tools. This is not a heavy tech book. It's more about good practice and reminding teachers hey, you know what you are already doing this, now let's take it up a notch. And then, you know, just kind of start putting things together to have that discourse in class, that discussion amplifying student voice. And you know, going into the portfolios, giving them their, you know looking at the thought process, you know, and, of course, how they work towards that finished product. So I want to ask you you know, let's talk a little bit about that. You know enhancing the student learning through. You know entrepreneurial skills. All right, so we'll start with you, tisha. What are some ways that you describe in your book? And you know, let our teachers know how these two worlds can work together in a classroom.

Tisha Poncio: 18:24

Well. So I think that you know I spoke about. I didn't really know if you had put me in a corporate environment or startup environment. I wouldn't know the things. I did know the things, I just didn't know what. They were called Right, and so the entire class that I created with my students. I essentially had to put together this quote unquote pitch deck because I had to prove the validity of this class. I had to prove that it matched CTE.

Tisha Poncio: 18:52

As I was proving this point to my administrators, it also made me thoughtfully think through what do I want my students to leave my classroom with? Well, I knew I wanted them to have certain certifications and skills, so I kind of went backwards. You know, it doesn't matter if it's Google certified trainer things that I was teaching them, or you know it doesn't matter if it's Google certified trainer things that I was teaching them, or you know, google level one and level two. It was more about the skill. It was more about the process of how they got from, you know, not being certified to how they were being certified. Then I started looking at okay, well, what do I want them to learn about working with people? So then I started thinking about now I need a little customer service area, and so I just started building it kind of backwards, if you will, which is what we talk about in the book. It's design thinking, it's backwards thinking and I think for the three of us and many people who are listening who are neurodivergent, we do think in that way. We see the big picture first and then we sort of break it down for everyone else. We see patterns that everybody else may not see, and so I started really working on it that way and it was slow, it was not perfect, it didn't. It wasn't this book right out of the gate, right this. I started that class in 2017. And so when I went to Wakelet, that was in 2021.

Tisha Poncio: 20:12

So I had years to sort of refine what I was doing, and one of the things that I will tell you is I started getting student feedback. That's something I started when I was a new teacher, and I very vividly remember sending out a survey it wasn't electronic, yet, like it was actually on paper to my students, and someone walked by my classroom and said what are you doing? And I said well, I'm just asking my students feedback on the lesson so that I can make the lesson better for this and that was. I was a brand new teacher and you already know how that hit. They were like why would you do that? It's like, why would I not do that? So I had been doing that already, but then in that classroom, because of how I structured it, we didn't have regular desks. The truth of the matter is, fonz, they put me in a closet with my students, so I had to make a classroom out of the closet, which I made into an office, because that's just how I think. Then we got into the classroom, the students are in the classroom, they're doing the things I have outlined and it really begins to operate as a business they are having to talk to each other about.

Tisha Poncio: 21:22

Is this graphic ready to go out on the big billboard for the entire school? You know have. Did I spell everything correctly? Are the colors right? Can you see it? It was little things in the beginning. Then they were doing their portfolios and they were reflecting and decision making, and I think for me, that's really where the shift happened. I was giving them time to think Imagine that as a teacher and then I was giving them time to make decisions, and that is really where the shift happens, and I think in school even for me in the beginning I was not giving them decision making time, so we didn't put tech tools in the book, because you're going to go to a job and you don't know what tech tools they're going to be using. I'll give you an exhibit A Fonz, are you ready?

Fonz Mendoza: 22:10

I'm ready.

Tisha Poncio: 22:11

When I went to SMART. I went in as a Google certified trainer who had been using Google forever, except for the early days when I was teaching Microsoft Office to adult trainers. But I go into SMART and I'm like, oh, we're using Google and we're using Microsoft. Oh my God, Like I sort of had a mental meltdown because I thought I'm going to use both of these ecosystems at the same time and I knew that for me, the code shifting, the shifting and going back and forth from platforms. But because I had built up resiliency with other platforms, I was able to get in there and go okay, this makes sense, I can find a workflow. That's really what it's about. Doesn't matter if you're using Book Creator, Love Book Creator. Doesn't matter if you used Flip before, loved Flip.

Tisha Poncio: 23:02

Whatever you're using, the goal isn't really about the tool, it's about the skill. It's about learning the versatility. It's about getting in there and being able to see how do they work together. How can they help me do the thing I need to go do? Doesn't matter what the name of it is right. So that's kind of how my classroom started. And then I started realizing, oh my God, these skills are so transferable to what they want to do outside of this classroom, so it really was an aha moment for me.

Fonz Mendoza: 23:26

I love it Now going back going into that All right, rick, here we go. Moment. For me, I love it Now going back going into that. All right, rick, here we go. That and this this just came to mind. Like you were saying, you're prepping them there in in in school, and one thing that I loved is everything that you added in a class, which can be done, you know, but oftentimes it's teachers. They feel the pressure of the curriculum and so on. I it was funny, like I would always bundle lessons. I say you know what, I'm going to take my time. This goes with this, this goes here.

Fonz Mendoza: 23:52

But I'm going to take my time and make this a long drawn-out project and give them that time to process, and that's one thing I want to hit on is that there is not enough processing time given to students in a regular day-to-day. I mean, what happens is you're a teacher, center stage, the first two rows raise their hands and you think, just because the first two rows know and raise their hands, what about the last two rows? What about those students? What are we doing for them? Are we giving them enough processing time? And usually it's like, nope, we got to go, go, go. And the teacher just kind of gauges their lesson by the first you know two rows. And so I love the idea of giving that feedback and say, hey, students, what could I do better? And that could be very scary.

Fonz Mendoza: 25:33

But now going to those transferable skills, like you mentioned, rick, you coming in with that entrepreneurial background into the business sense and so on. Going along with what Tish said, how important are those skills, from high school, elementary high school, to your current setting or where you lived in the entrepreneurial space, business space, what are some important things that you can highlight that Tish mentioned and so we can highlight to our teachers and say hey, these are the skills that they really need. It's not just focused on one platform, but on problem solving.

Rick Butterworth: 26:09

Yep, well, I'll give you a study that we actually presented on Artisti this year and it was found that there was a thousand, almost a thousand, hiring managers from different companies that were asked about recently graduated students and they found that 60% of them have fired at least one graduate that they'd recently hired within less than six months and that was last year. And they listed out the top 10 reasons and they were like lack of professionalism, which I always look at and think well, you've got someone coming straight from either university or straight out of school going into the workplace. What do you expect? But the ones that really shocked me were difficulty actually receiving feedback, poor organizational skills, unable to time manage their actual workload, unable to adapt into this kind of professional way of working, and it got us really thinking about that one, especially because students are coming out from a very structured format. This the way that the classroom is, and stuff me.

Rick Butterworth: 27:22

Me and tish did the research in for the book. This goes back over a hundred years. This was Perusian model, which was introduced from Europe, and its students are in rows and columns, teachers at the front, and the design of it which was taken. It was in Germany that it was originally formed and the design of it was the best. Students will either become engineers, doctors, high quality careers. The rest of them will go to the army. Well, that's not the real world now, but we're still keeping with that kind of methodology and because of these ways of working, like you were just saying that I think teachers are so stuck to this.

Rick Butterworth: 28:08

We've got a one hour lesson. What do we need to get done in that one hour? Rather than thinking well, we have seven weeks right now, there's seven hours that we can actually progress on, diff on a single project, and actually come back to over and over to basically distill in them that it's not just a one project, you're done, start the next one, start the next one, which is the mentality that I definitely had in school I know Tish also did, because we've talked about it that you do a project, you get your grade, you move on. There's no, no kind of feedback. There's no way of going back and looking right, what can I do better to actually improve? It's just no, you've done that. Tick a box, move on to the next imagine if you had done that with wakelet yeah, I mean, that's again.

Rick Butterworth: 28:56

That same mentality was brought into into wakelet and I think you've, we've seen it every company that it's always this, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. We have that mentality in school so we end up bringing that into the actual workplace when really, especially as a designer, user experience. That is the wrong way to go. You have to look at, and the biggest one is feedback and actually being able to reflect on that, because I can create a feature on any platform, if I don't go and see how people are using it, what actually works, what doesn't work, I'm not actually going to improve the product. I might be able to move the needle ever so slightly if it works out correctly, but that's not always the case. But if I'm not looking back on things, I'm never improving the product as I'm moving forward. So for me, the one thing I always I learned very early on, and it was in design technology during um, I was in year 12, which I think is yeah, I don't know, I think the years work differently with uk and us but um, basically we were doing graphic design, wood, woodwork, electronics, all that into one class and the teacher said you cannot get 100% in the exam. Just to let you know. You will never get 100% because the mindset is whatever you can create, you can do better. Nothing is perfect. You can always improve, and those lessons also required me to design stuff and go back and look at them and say what, what works, what doesn't work, what can I do better. And you evolve this idea in your head to an end product.

Rick Butterworth: 30:38

But it's a process of working towards it and then going on to then build it, and I think you need that mentality in any single subject. You do that. You're actually looking at what can we do better, what can we, even if it's like a seven week project. First week you've got say I don't know, coming up with an idea and putting some things on paper. And then the second, uh week right, let's take it further. But the teacher can come in and say, right, let's actually look at what you've done, where you're up to, let's try and give some feedback and some ideas. And it doesn't have to just be the teacher. You can also look at getting peer-to-peer reviewing. There's multiple different ways that we talk about in the book of how to do feedback.

Tisha Poncio: 31:24

That's how the real world works right. Exactly. I don't just go to, I just don't. I don't go to my boss and say can you review this? If she did that for all of us, that's all she'd be doing right. So it's about teaching the students that peer-to-peer feedback. That is something, bonds, that we didn't anticipate. I think Rick did. I think Rick, he has been talking about it for a really long time. What is that? Chapter eight, that's chapter eight.

Rick Butterworth: 31:50

I'm very, very passionate when it comes to feedback and reflection, because it's not an area that I well, again, it was the whole thing of I don't know how to do it. Therefore, I'm the only one that knows how to do it, but the one thing we did we did a session at ISTE on student confidence, and feedback and reflection was the two key points. On student confidence, and feedback and reflection was the two key points, and we discovered asking the audience like have you ever been taught feedback and reflection? Have you taught it as well in your classroom?

Tisha Poncio: 32:17

and hardly anybody put their hands in. One person raised their hand. Out of probably 75 to 80 people, 80 people in this session did not and and this girl came up a young teacher came up after and said thank you so much. Nobody is talking about this. I have been sitting in my career for years thinking that I was the only one that was never taught feedback and reflection. So if you think about that, that is everybody again sitting in their own stuff going. I don't know this and everybody else does, because we're not talking about it and we need to be talking more.

Rick Butterworth: 32:50

Because it's the fear of being judged as well, because we're thinking, if I don't know this, am I going to be judged on not knowing it, when really we should be looking at it and going no, let's try and help as many people out as possible. If someone's not 100% confident on something, something, what can we do to help them? And that, again, that's all feedback and reflection. You learn from doing that. But again, tish said to me it's like the chicken and the egg kind of thing of you need to get feedback but you also need to find someone that has the knowledge on feedback but they don't know the feedback right.

Tisha Poncio: 33:25

How do you find you have to? You have to surround yourself with people who can learn and grow with you in that knowledge, or find a mentor who has has really done that well or is seeking to continue to refine that. I think that's the difficult part, right again, because we assume everybody knows, so we assume if we're getting feedback from someone, we'll just, I'll just, I'll use me as an example. I'm in a classroom, I'm getting, you know, evaluated. It's my evaluation day. My principal may write something on my evaluation form that is very negative. I'm going to take that personal. I'm going to start saying he doesn't know what he's talking about because he doesn't actually know what I do. Y'all know we're saying that he doesn't really know what I do. He doesn't have the same content knowledge that I have. Again, there's this, and so it just creates this loop of negativity where we're never getting out of that. So how do we shift ourselves?

Tisha Poncio: 34:32

One of the things that Rick and I have said in the book we have suggested and it was a great book for me to read. Again, I didn't learn feedback and reflection from anyone except myself, but this book has been really transformational for me personally. It's called the Four Agreements. I won't bore you with all the four agreements, but one of the agreements in there is don't take anything personal. And if you can start removing that personal piece away from it, you start taking in what people are saying and then you can start sorting through the pieces that are valuable to you that you do need to work on and maybe pushing aside those things that they're saying that really aren't helpful. Right, and you can do that and you can start growing. That is kind of where that growth happens.

Tisha Poncio: 35:09

But it is difficult in the classroom, fonz, I will tell you. It's difficult in work environments. I know we all know this. This is not new. We're all adults. It is difficult to do feedback and reflection, even with teachers.

Tisha Poncio: 35:21

I was an instructional coach for a long time. I'm, you know. I still give feedback and reflection to people and I always kind of pause and wait to see how they're going to respond or react, because I want to be prepared. Are they going to hang up on me and we're not going to even have a conversation call, or are we going to go back and forth and they're going to ask questions? It is, it's a very hard thing to do as an adult. If we can't do it, how do we teach it to students? But it can be easier, right?

Tisha Poncio: 35:53

So we could tell you, fonz, okay, here are your two stars for your podcast, my Antichrist Life podcast. These are the two things we love. Here's the one thing we think maybe would help you grow your audience or something, right, so being able to do that. But then you have to also ask not everybody wants a compliment sandwich. Some people hate that and they're going to be mad at you for it, right? So you just have to know who you're talking to, which then prompts you to really be intentional about your relationships. Are they transactional only or are they transformational? So I don't know.

Fonz Mendoza: 36:26

There's a lot to unpack here.

Fonz Mendoza: 36:27

There really is, and I'm sorry, rick, but I just wanted to add, before I forget, higher ed.

Fonz Mendoza: 36:46

That could definitely make things a lot better.

Fonz Mendoza: 36:48

And especially, you know, with that research study of CEOs and all those things, being able to take, you know, criticism or that feedback and things of that sort, and being able to adapt, being able to overcome those things. I mean it's a skill, you know, and learning that process too as well. But the fact that we don't take the time to allow for peer-to-peer feedback or even just teacher feedback and just giving the students, you know, just hey, this is what we can work on. There's so much stuff that, like Tish said, that we are already doing in our classrooms, but we can bring it together and make it a little bit more systematic in the sense that it's part of your class and maybe even part of your vision for your district, from year to year, to build up that character, build up students that can take the feedback, can take action on the feedback and can overcome and continue to grow. But I think that's why maybe there's some of that feedback that those CEOs said it's like, hey, you know what, they just can't take the feedback and people just get-.

Tisha Poncio: 37:58

Can we give some examples? Yes, yes, please. I didn't tell Rick we were doing this and he's probably like Tisha, here you go again.

Rick Butterworth: 38:04

I mean, it's every single time.

Tisha Poncio: 38:12

So I'm used to it. Now this is something that we did go over our presentation and I just want to hit on it because we're talking about feedback over criticism. We're talking about positive feedback. But I want to give the listeners examples, and these examples came from a real student. This these examples do not come from my name explains we asked a tell me negative feedback that you hear from a teacher. That really does not help. So here are some of those phrases Quote what were you thinking when you wrote this End quote, quote.

Tisha Poncio: 38:42

Why did you do this End quote? Fix this, you need to redo this. So it's very like you notice in those statements. They're they're very like short, the direct and yeah, and there's not a lot of like thinking that goes along with it, or feedback. So then I said OK, you know, now tell us what is positively helpful, whether it is in an LMS comment or it's a verbal feedback or however they're giving it to you. So here are some examples of positive pieces of feedback.

Tisha Poncio: 39:18

We need to work on this part a bit more to help improve your overall project. Your grade is a bit below passing, but let's meet and work together on how we can fix this grade. Great job. I think, to enhance this further, let's improve on this part. So, whatever that is, and then you did great Work on this one area and then it will be perfect.

Tisha Poncio: 39:40

So Rick and I talk a lot in the book about changing your wording for certain things and how you say things to students. Um, we all know that no one can be perfect, and just because someone gets 100 doesn't mean that's perfect. But a lot of students want to feel like they are achieving perfection and so even if we just say it to them, you know, just fix this one little bit and it's going to be perfect. Like that's okay to tell them that You're not telling them that they're never making a mistake. But it's that one little piece. And so I thought it was interesting. The student gave us both of those pieces. Those are real pieces of feedback from their real teachers the last year, and so I just thought it would be helpful for teachers to kind of hear that, because sometimes we get busy and we just say fix this. And we have to remember our words have power.

Fonz Mendoza: 40:32

Yes, I want to add to that. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead, rick, I'll let you go.

Rick Butterworth: 40:35

Yeah, no problem. Yeah, I mean, Tish literally went straight into what I was going to go with anyway.

Rick Butterworth: 40:41

But no, this is why our dynamic works so well, because we just we know what each other's essentially thinking without even realizing it. But just to add on to what Tish has just said, even if a teacher wants literally a very, very low hanging fruit we said this in our presentation change but to and Because there's been many times, and Tish actually used two very good examples, and because there's been many times and tish tish actually used two very good examples when you use something that is negative in a way like she said, you're on, you're under performing or you're just below average, but that's a negative use the but to cancel that out. Let's try and look at how we can improve it. Where it's really being hindered is when someone says you're doing great but you're missing out on these things. Well, that positive you just started with the moment you use but just destroyed it straight away. So if you change it to you're doing great and to make it better, let's look at improving these areas.

Rick Butterworth: 41:42

Using that one word changing but and has a massive impact on someone's self-esteem and how they're actually receiving it, because the moment you destroy any form of positive, you're fixating on the negative and that's what the person's going to do, because I know for myself, when I was receiving feedback, I could get 99 amazing comments. One negative comment sticks in my mind every time and and I dwell on that and I make it out to be bigger than the 99 positive. But if I start to focus on the feedback, that is positive more so, and people have actually adapted that the way that they're communicating it. I'm going to pick up on that and I'm actually going to make changes based on the positive feedback, which will have bigger outcomes in the future. I love it.

Fonz Mendoza: 42:27

Rick, I think you and I became best friends now too with everything that you said, because I'm one of those too Like you can give me 99 things that are like going well, but that one thing, it ruins me. I'm done for the day Like. I am just hyper fixated on that because I feel like I did not meet your standards and that's it, Like I'm done and you just shut down.

Tisha Poncio: 42:50

I think that that is really the conditioning of us being in school in that way always trying to get the approval of the teacher or our parents, and I think you know we are in an interesting generation here where we didn't really get that. But we can change the course for the future leaders, and that's really what our whole book and our whole stance is about. Let's let's change this.

Fonz Mendoza: 43:15

Yeah, I wanted to add a little bit to this great piece of conversation because I think this is so important. In my experience when I was in elementary, you know, obviously we had parent teacher meetings and, of course, you had the IEP meetings, the 504s, where you met with parents and you met with admin. One of the things that I loved that I found very useful in my classroom and this is a segue to what I want to go into We'll talk about digital portfolios, but that's something that I started doing back in 2016, 17. It wasn't really a digital portfolio. It was just really like, hey, we're going to do everything digitally, so there's evidence of learning, so I already have it in your Google Drive and everything.

Fonz Mendoza: 43:52

So I would go into these IEP meetings 504 meetings. You've got the parent, you've got the admin, you've got the specialists and diagnosticians and everything. And then you've got teachers that come in and they bring like a pack, a packet of quizzes or tests. Or you've got teachers that just come in with absolutely nothing. I would come in with a little Chromebook and then so now, all of a sudden, it's like OK, so this student you know, student X is maybe not doing very well in this class. What can they do to improve? So there's the teacher with nothing that comes in with nothing, is just like, well, they just need to study more, they just need to pass their quizzes, but really no substance. As well, you know what. This is what they're doing, very well, and but we need to do some additional work on, you know, this specific standard and this, and that Then you've got the other teacher that comes in with a packet of tests and shows the work and says well, this is the work that they're doing, this is what they have, so they just need to study and do this and redo this, and I'm like you know.

Fonz Mendoza: 44:51

And then. So, okay, mr Mendoza, so what's going on with the student in your class? Well, let me show you. This is his Google Drive, or their Google Drive. This is where they were at the beginning of the year. This is where they are currently. So, as you can see, there was a little bit of that improvement. Then there was a slight dip, but now we're able to get them up and, as you can see, the language acquisition from beginning of the year to this specific point is here, we're on track, and so that evidence is there, and so, for me.

Fonz Mendoza: 45:20

I think that that's so important, even not just in the classroom with the students, but teachers, with parents to be able to give the right type of feedback and not make an enemy of the parent but get the parent on your side and on your team by showing that wonderful feedback from the student and how you can improve and work together towards that improvement.

Fonz Mendoza: 45:44

So that definitely helped me before I learned more about the wonderful world of digital portfolios, but now that's a nice segue into this because I want to talk about that you know, the digital portfolios, and I guess we'll talk a little bit about personal branding, because in that sense, I feel that in a lot of the projects that we should be giving our students, we should give them that freedom obviously, show me the content, show me in a specific way that you feel comfortable with in showing me that content mastery, but also sprinkle on a little bit about yourself and you and that's your brand. So let's talk a little bit about that. Tish, tell me about you know digital portfolios and personal branding and why that's important.

Tisha Poncio: 46:28

Well, I first want to say that I think there are some misconceptions when we say digital portfolios. This is something that I have come across multiple times. I would say that your Google Drive with your students is a digital portfolio. The digital portfolio really is anything digital that you are constantly updating, right? So that could be the Google Drive, it could be the LinkedIn, it could actually your Facebook page. So, just FYI, whatever you're putting out there is actually your digital portfolio, personal or professional. I think the thing about portfolios, though I was doing portfolios forever. I've been doing them forever. I mean, I hate to be coined as the portfolio girl, but I think that's becoming very relevant these days.

Tisha Poncio: 47:13

I went to a small private university. Let me just caveat that I paid for that all on my own, so I just want you to know I was not in that privileged state. I chose that university because I wanted to be a good teacher. One of the things of that program that I knew of and had sort of scouted out already is that they were doing portfolios with their education student. They were also having them go multiple places to do student teaching. So oftentimes you'll just have student teaching at the very end of your degree, right at the very end before you get a job. They were requiring us to do it multiple times throughout our coursework and then. So we had a really, really robust portfolio. This is a true story. I don't think I've ever told the story, but this is the origination of the portfolio DNA into Shabansio.

Tisha Poncio: 48:01

So when I graduated, my portfolio, I have it. I'll have to post a picture of it and send it to you. So you have it. It was pretty big. It was one of those leather bound portfolios with, you know, the paper protectors, and I had everything in there really neatly. Well, here is why I knew it works because I took that portfolio and the very first job that I applied for as a teacher, I got hired on the spot, and it was because of that portfolio, because I was showing what I knew, I was showing what I could do, and it was just paper, so that was fine. So then I started doing that in my classroom. I thought, well, if it works for me to get the job, then I should be doing this with my students. So we would create portfolios on paper in my business computers class and in my programming class, and I mean, imagine how fun that was to look through a portfolio of coding, but I did and I wanted them to see the value in it. So, over the course of time, obviously, we entered the digital age and I started realizing that all the social media was becoming a portfolio, and then I thought I have to figure out how to translate this. So I just started evolving that into what I was doing. So it could have been a portfolio on, you know, level one, google certified educator, or it could have been a portfolio on art or on case. But that is really where my classroom exploded Because, as you said said, it was about giving students the ability to choose how they were, showing me that they had learned something and giving them the opportunity to brand it with their own personality.

Tisha Poncio: 49:38

Now, think about that. That was not something that we all grew up with, right? It wasn't like oh, rick, you want to do coding and you want to build a program to show what you've learned and funds, fonz, you can do. No, we didn't get those choices. It was like here's your worksheet, right?

Tisha Poncio: 49:51

So I think in doing that, my students started seeing what you just explained, fonz, in that meeting. They started seeing oh, I started here, and then I got here and they started seeing their own growth. So you know what that did. That took all the responsibility off of me, essentially because they were seeing it themselves. And then they were shouting about it to each other and they were like, look at this graphic I did in August, isn't that horrible? Look at my growth. I could have done so much better. They started having that conversation.

Tisha Poncio: 50:24

Then they started taking those portfolios and their resumes to job application, like to job, you know, applying for jobs. It wasn't a huge, it wasn't a job at a big company, it was like Sonic. Okay, I just want to give you reference. But they were going to Sonic with their resume and their little digital portfolio and telling them to scan the QR code. Because, you know, sonic, he's not got his laptop with him. He's scan the QR code because, you know, at Sonic, he's not got his laptop with him. He's scanning the QR code on his phone and he's looking at this amazing thing, going, yes, you're hired right.

Tisha Poncio: 50:53

So they started seeing that the whole goal of that digital portfolio whether it is on your Facebook or your LinkedIn or it's for a classroom, is for you to really see and reflect on the growth that you're making right. Is it actually moving your needle to where you want to go in the future, or is it holding you back? So I really got lost on that question, bonds, but I was really passionate about that because I wanted people to understand portfolios are. It's such a myth and Rick can tell you. So, rick, I'm going to let you talk about this. When we started writing this chapter, it was the hardest chapter for me to write.

Fonz Mendoza: 51:33

Rick, what's for you now? Going on digital portfolios, and I'm sure you know in your line of work you definitely have to create some kind of portfolio or evidence of the work that you're doing and so maybe going back to in writing this book and reflecting on your own personal journey you know what do you see the benefits of having a portfolio?

Rick Butterworth: 51:56

Yeah, I mean, for me it was. I was very narrow minded with portfolios initially because I I only ever saw them. When it came to showcase your design work or your art portfolio. It was always something that you had crafted yourself and you were trying to get a job in that area. You needed to show what kind of things have you created in the past.

Rick Butterworth: 52:19

But really, when it comes down to it, we can start off with a CV, a one or two pieces paper with I worked here, my education's here, these are my interests. Or the one line at the very bottom which I find very interesting is what am I interested in? And it's the one part of a portfolio in a way that showcases the individual as a person. It's essentially that is their brand on a cv, when really I look at it and say, yeah, you can have someone who is the best of the best in that field. But do they actually fit in with the company culture? Can they gel with the team? Do they have the right mentality that you're after for that job role? And a piece of paper doesn't really tell you that. But when you can start bringing in different formats of media whether it's a video, an audio file images, you start to see the person, who the person actually is, rather than just a name with some experience on a piece of paper. And one analogy I always use is you can have the best sports team, whether that's soccer, american football, baseball, ice hockey, whatever. You could have all the best players in the world because you've got all the best, all the money in the world and take on everybody. You still might not win the league because that team might not gel together.

Rick Butterworth: 53:42

And it's the same that I look with a cv or a digital portfolio. I'm going to look at the person first before I look at what they've actually created, because the person themselves could be motivated, driven, really passionate about what they do. Their work at the moment might not be the best because they might be lacking experience, but the great thing is that's an opportunity for them to come into the company and be molded in a way that we want you to work in this way, but also we want to give you flexibility to grow and learn. Because they've got that passion, they're more likely to go out and do that actual extra work that they wanted to do to grow their career, whereas somebody else who has all the experience might not be as willing, but their idea of what they want to do might fit better to the job role that you have at the time.

Rick Butterworth: 54:33

So when it comes to digital portfolios, I always look at the fact that you want to have some form of flexibility. As Tish says, it can be anything A Google Drive, facebook account, linkedin, instagram, pinterest, anything like that, or just a piece of paper with a load of photos of what you've done, with some achievements. It can be anything, as long as you're showing that personal side and as long as companies are also looking at that personal side as well.

Tisha Poncio: 55:01

Don't you think that it's so? We've talked about this before, fonz. It's not a project. I don't want anybody that is listening to think of okay, I'm going to do my portfolio project now. Please don't think that I'm saying it out loud. We're recording it. I want this to come back and haunt you if you're doing that. I'm never saying, okay, it's time for us to do our portfolio. It's not a project. The portfolio is a process. The do our portfolio, the project. It's not a project. The portfolio is a process. The portfolio is a mindset. The portfolio is a way of life. That is how I want you to think of it, and if you can think of it in that way for yourselves, you can then start modeling that for your students. The portfolio isn't something that you just pick up and put down like you do your Christmas decoration in December. No, don't do that.

Fonz Mendoza: 55:45

I love that.

Tisha Poncio: 55:47

I just had to say that because I wanted people to be very clear on what we're saying in the book.

Rick Butterworth: 55:52

I completely agree. Yeah, it is one of those things that is an ongoing thing. It's not a single use project like what we've talked about in schools or even in work, that you do one thing, you move on to the next, you move on to the next. You're always evolving it and developing it to be better than what it was. And going back to the whole feedback and reflection, a digital portfolio is a great place to start because it gets you starting on something that is going to evolve, and the only way to get it to evolve is by getting that feedback and reflection on the work that you're doing, so it's full circle If you're listening, julie Parsons.

Rick Butterworth: 56:28

I was going to say Julie as well.

Tisha Poncio: 56:29

Portfolio. I will say this when she was 14 years old in my class and Julie Parsons is now 24, 25, still updating that exact same portfolio.

Fonz Mendoza: 56:42

I love it. All right, guys. So as we start wrapping up, you know I want to ask you both just to kind of close this segment out, and of course, we'll go to our last three questions for each one of you. But I want to ask you could each of you and I'll give you a little bit of time reflect on one key change you'd most like teachers to embrace from today's learners and tomorrow's leaders? Like teachers to embrace from today's learners and tomorrow's leaders. So I'll start with Rick what is one key change that you would love for teachers to embrace, to kind of say, hey, this is where I would love for you to just be open-minded and maybe, you know, take a step in this direction or try this out.

Rick Butterworth: 57:24

I mean, I'm very passionate about changing one thing. I mean the, the and but is such a low-hanging fruit. But if I was to look at something different then I might be stealing tisha's idea here. But uh, focus on the neurodivergent. If you accommodate to neurodivergent students, they accommodate to 20 20% of the classroom. Being dyslexic as well, we accommodate to 15% of the classroom on average. If you accommodate to them, you accommodate to every single student. So it could be, rather than just writing everything out, maybe it's audio recording. I know Tish's said before that if she's giving feedback, if she could just speak it and record it and send it to a student rather than writing it out every single time, it would be quicker for her. And that's the thing that a teacher may be different on how she or he best works. If you can accommodate to a neurodivergent student, you have a higher chance to accommodate to the entire class, not just the 80% that aren't neurodivergent student. You have a higher chance to accommodate to the entire class, not just the 80% that aren't neurodivergent love it Tish.

Rick Butterworth: 58:32

Can I tag on to that?

Fonz Mendoza: 58:33

yes of course.

Tisha Poncio: 58:36

I just want to say, yes, rick did steal one of my tips, but I what I want to say to that is one of the other things we ask teachers at ISTE in our session is how many of you were taught how to teach to neurodivergent learners Like, do you feel confident in that? And again, nobody raised their hand. So I want to say to that, if you are teaching to those 20%, there are tons of resources out there for you on how to teach to the neurodivergent learners, and I'll send Fawn some links that he can put in the show notes, because you aren't alone if you don't know how to do that. What we are saying is for that processing time, like we have been talking. That would be one of the things. Your neurodivergent learners are going to need extra processing time. So that would be something that you can shift, or giving them choice.

Tisha Poncio: 59:30

Just think about the three of us here If a teacher gave us all the same project, we would have completely different evidence of learning, right? So it's kind of like apply that process, okay. So repeat the question for me, fonz, because I really want to answer this very thoughtfully. Yeah, no worries. So repeat the question for me, fonz, because I really want to answer this very thoughtfully.

Fonz Mendoza: 59:46

Yeah, no worries. So, reflecting on one key change that you would love for teachers to embrace from today's learners and tomorrow's leaders, what is your one thing, that you their main takeaway, I guess?

Tisha Poncio: 1:00:01

Yeah, challenge you if you buy the book or if you don't is for you to just sit and reflect on your teaching career, because I know that you know the one thing that you could probably shift and that is the thing that I want you to focus on For me it was wow, I'm doing rubrics, all wrong, right. Like if you had asked me that question in 2016, I would have been like that's probably not the best way to do that, and it really didn't take anybody telling me. I just kind of internally knew so all of the teachers listening, whether or not you buy the book, I just want you to reflect on your teaching practice. There is that one thing that you know that is kind of nagging at you to maybe reassess how could you do it differently, and don't be afraid to do that differently. So don't think that it is a hit to your expertise or your knowledge.

Tisha Poncio: 1:00:59

It's not so you know that that would be my thing. It could be anything. That is a very small lift and I think for everybody it's different. I think if I ask you, fonz, that question, you probably have a thing that you're thinking right now like oh, I could probably do that one thing better this next year. Just start with that. Don't overthink it, because overthinking is going to get us paralyzed.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:01:20

Yes, I agree with you. Just keep it simple and streamline, Start off with that one little thing and then just make that change. And as hard as it can be sometimes I think oftentimes too and I just want to add is sometimes, when our stress levels are high, we always revert back to the way we used to do things.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:01:37

So it's just a matter of even fighting that too as well, just to be able to overcome that stress and just say, okay, look, I know I've been making this progress. Let's just continue moving forward and not let that stress get you and just fall back into your normal routine, because, exactly, yeah for sure.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:01:54

All right guys. Well, thank you so much for joining me on this more this morning. I mean, it's always an honor and a pleasure to have some amazing guests, but today's conversation, too, was fantastic. I mean just getting your insight. Having back tish and having rick on as a first time guest too, is just great.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:02:09

And hearing and we didn't even talk about ai fun we didn't, and I was telling rick before you showed up, you know, I was telling rick. I was like, oh, I'm so happy for this show. It's just kind of a nice little, you know, change of pace and really just getting into the basics, and sometimes that's what we need many times, just kind of that little swift kick back into the basics just to remember some things and then just continue to move forward there. So really excited about that, and we'll make sure that we link all the info for the book, your bios, and then, of course, those extra resources that Tish will send. That way all our listeners can get a hold of that too as well. But before we wrap up, as you know, we and get a hold of that too as well. But before we wrap up, as you know, we always end the show with these last three questions, and I know I forgot to put them in the calendar. Invite, or did I? I'm not sure.

Tisha Poncio: 1:02:51

I was looking for them. I don't know where they are, but I'm okay, but it's all good. I think you guys will be fine.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:02:56

So what we'll do is we'll go ahead and start with Rick a weakness, and we know that for Superman kryptonite, you know, was that one thing that weakened him. So I want to ask you, Rick, in the current state of education, what would you say is your current edu kryptonite?

Rick Butterworth: 1:03:21

I honestly I would say right now is actually AI. I would actually say it's AI because it's. I think it's. I have used AI but the problem I have is it ends up. I don't want to rely on AI. I still want to keep to my ways of working. It allows me to be my most creative, really problem solve. I love problem solving myself. If I start using ai, I'm gonna lose all of that ability and really tried just really training myself, because whenever, if you're playing a sport or anything like that, you want to be consistent with it. I don't want ai to just come in and replace some of the things I'm doing because, oh, it's a quick win and it gets things done faster than I I would normally do so. Um, I have depending on it from time to time, but it's yeah, I have a bit of a love-hate relationship with uh, with ai yeah, no, no, for sure, I've people even, and I know we've got a mutual friend, I believe.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:04:28

And then she posted, also recently, when she gave this keynote, she said hey, I'm going to have to hold back on AI because she goes. I had this keynote already like done like a month ago, but as she was going through it and she knows the content, but she used, you know, some tools to create the keynote, she said I lost, like that, that's not me, so it was just kind of like one of those like whoa moments. So I definitely feel you and hear you, rick, so thank you for sharing that tish on to you. What would you say is your current edu kryptonite?

Tisha Poncio: 1:05:00

yeah, uh, the amount of digital tools that are out there, or digital tools without soul.

Tisha Poncio: 1:05:08

I don't know how to explain that. It's like I want tools that are going to allow me again, this is back to my neurodivergent brain right? I need tools that are going to allow me to stack things right, like, whether it's goal stacking or, like you said, and this is how we did it in the classroom goal stacking where, like you said and this is how we did it in the classroom, I would take my teaks and be like, okay, I can do 20 teaks with this one like project, and like these three digital tools, I it's tools that are making me feel like I can't expand. I don't know how else to say that and I don't know if you guys understand what I'm saying, but it's like tools that are not helping me to grow, whether that is in my knowledge or in my you know my, my tech expertise or whatever, but I think, in general, my kryptonite is a lot of digital tools that are out there. Like you know, it's just because I've done this for so long on, like vetting digital tools. I'm like yeah there's.

Tisha Poncio: 1:06:02

There's a tool for everything and it's getting so cumbersome to like keep track of all of the things. And I just I feel the heaviness on teachers, right, I don't know how else to explain that, but it's a heaviness that I feel, because how do you possibly keep up with all of the tools that are out there and all of the updates and all of the things? And then, in that regard, my kryptonite is giving me data, because, dad, there's so much data everywhere, like what is my password for this and what is my password for that, and I don't know. It's just a lot. It becomes very cumbersome. So then there are days when I'm like you know what I'm not, I'm not using that. I'll be honest with you. This is a true story.

Tisha Poncio: 1:06:43

At my new new job at Smart, we use a tool called ClickUp, which is very similar to Notion or Monday. Right now, clickup is my kryptonite. That tool and I we are not getting along. So this whole week I just said I'm not opening it this week. I just can't open it. I'm going to do the things I know I need to do, but I can't open it this week. So I don don't know. I really feel the teacher's pain with that, and that's just you know.

Tisha Poncio: 1:07:08

It's also one of the reasons we didn't put any tech tools in our book. We didn't want people to get too caught up in the tech tool. It's not about the tech tool, it's not about the digital tool. It is about the instructional strategy. It's about the pedagogy. It's about the. You know the frameworks that you're using with your students. You can get so I used to tell my students you're doing your project, oh, and they'd be like miss poncio, we want to like, we want to. They'd be like you and rick, we want to make it look really pretty. Can we spend all of our time in photoshop and all of our? And I'd be like that's awesome. You did great. You spent 30 hours in photoshop. I still don't know what content you're telling me about, and so it's kind of like that. I don't, you know. I don't know. I went on a tangent there. No, no, no, but it's okay.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:07:51

I agree with you in the sense that it's about bringing it back to the teacher being seen as the expert and you know, and just going back to hey, it's okay to not have a Chromebook in front of the student's face all the time.

Rick Butterworth: 1:08:06

You know it's okay to have a discussion.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:08:08

It's okay for them to use color pencils and crayons to create a project or, you know, cut cardboard out or whatever it's about balance.

Tisha Poncio: 1:08:16

If we aren't teaching our students about balance in their learning, balance in their personal and professional lives, we are doing a disservice to them. There has to be balance, for sure.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:08:27

And then going back to the tools, like you have one tool with 150 tools in it and then, like you said, but it doesn't help you grow. All it does is it's going to spit out like, well, here, try this. I was like, well, I already know how to do all of this, but then it says now create this. So it's like you're giving me more work to do.

Tisha Poncio: 1:08:43

Chat. Gpt and I, we go round and round because there are times when I'm like, OK, you're useless to me right now. You know like you helped me to this point, but you can't get me to where I actually need to go. So yeah, yeah. I talk to my 12 a lot.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:08:57

All right, here we go. Question number two. We'll start with you, tish, if you could have a billboard with anything on it, what would it be and why?

Tisha Poncio: 1:09:05

there's a way, not the way, because I am really tired of people thinking that the way that they think and the way that they do things and the way that they believe is the only way that that was fire, that was a.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:09:18

That meant wow that. Oh man, that's good, that's gonna hit some people hard it will but I love it. I love it. All. Right, rick I.

Rick Butterworth: 1:09:25

I don't know if you can beat that, but I'm just definitely curious about your billboard too I I knew I wouldn't, but I was thinking, if you were going to ask me first, I was going to steal that from tish because that has always been her. Well, she's drilled that into me so much. Um, that's slight tangent, but I ended up using that on her during our main session at isti uh, when she was telling me how to hold the microphone and I just went. There's a way to hold a microphone.

Rick Butterworth: 1:09:54

But no, mine will be. I would probably say you're not alone on what you know and what you don't know.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:10:02

I love it, that's good, I love it, that's great. Practical advice, you know, just for any teacher or anybody in any situation, is you're not alone. And I think it goes back to what you were mentioning too, rick, and while we were having the conversation, it's like you know to know that you're not the only one going through something or having you know saying like okay, I'm not the only one that is dyslexic and having a hard time. You know there are other people and that we can all support one another and things of that sort. And I think that's so important many times that it's important that we find our people, that we find those people that will lift us up, and I think that's a very important thing, because you can meet so many people out there that are great, smiles and everything, but they're not necessarily there for your best interest. You know they're there for their, their best interest, not your best interest. So, yeah, so, but you're not alone, and so I love it that I found my people here today in this conversation.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:10:57

Yeah, I love it, it's wonderful, all right. Last question, rick, we'll start off with you on this one if you could trade places with a single person for a day, who would that person be and why?

Rick Butterworth: 1:11:07

Oh God, can you come back to me on that one? Oh crikey, you know what I would. I mean, you can always look at celebrities and I could easily jump to. You know what? See what Elon Musk's doing. How does he?

Tisha Poncio: 1:11:27

do absolutely everything. That do absolutely everything, because I almost said that I think that might be mine.

Rick Butterworth: 1:11:32

I'm training places with Elon Musk for you okay, okay, well, mine, mine, if I'm honest, because I've been in the sea of doing, trying to do everything all at once. You know what, being in the mind of just a neurotypical that can just relax and switch off. That's a good one and just be like okay, I'm gonna do this now because being able for me, if six o'clock comes around, I'm just like well, I've still got these five other things to do, so I suppose I'm keeping going.

Rick Butterworth: 1:12:00

I mean, yeah, as a neurodivergent, we didn't stop, we just we can't, stop, we don't, and it does cause pain points, but it does also allow us to get things done. I think for me, the curiosity of a neurotypical mind any just general neurotypical mind and trying to see what it's like from that perspective would be a would be fun experience.

Tisha Poncio: 1:12:25

I'm kind of jealous of that answer, okay, but I have questions. Okay, is this like a freaky friday situation and like we're switching places and I'm gonna be them for like an hour and they're gonna be me?

Fonz Mendoza: 1:12:34

well, no, no, they're not gonna be you. It's just like who do you want to be for for a whole day?

Rick Butterworth: 1:12:39

okay it sends the disappointment in tish like I want someone to experience what I go through I know I I thought it was going to be like a trade off.

Tisha Poncio: 1:12:48

Honestly, I think I would choose Elon Musk and it isn't because I like Elon Musk, but I think I just have so much curiosity around like what is going on and like business wise. It's interesting that we're recording because I just saw again on LinkedIn his email that he had sent you know he had sent that email to his, to his people that I'm like if it, if it is a meeting that you don't need to have, don't have it. Basically is what the whole, and I think for me, like that is a dream life for me. I'm, like he actually said, don't have a meeting, so I would love to just like trade places and like see what that's like for a day, but I would. I don't know this trade places things. I have so many questions and that's my neurodivergent brain wanting to dive deeper and like ask you all the technicalities, I won't. Elon Musk is my choice and you know, for good or bad.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:13:38

Excellent. Well, I love it guys. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate this wonderful conversation. It is definitely something uplifting, something fresh and just to get away from the tech a little bit and just really focus on the teacher, the student and just continue to build up our educators that are out there that need that support. And thank you so much for sharing, too. You know your ISTE sessions and the responses that you were getting, because they definitely are eye-opening. Definitely the study you know too as well, and so there's definitely a lot of work to do in that sense. And again, I know everything is AI, but sometimes just going back to basics can definitely get you a lot further and build those skills that you really need to as well. So, thank you so much. I appreciate you appreciate the work that you're doing For all our audience members.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:14:24

Please make sure, if you're not following Tisha and if you're not following Rick, please do so. All their links will be shared in the show notes too as well. Make sure that you also go and look for your copy of their book, which I guarantee you is probably going to be one of the best things that you can invest in, to kind of just help you focus, relax and kind of reel it back to your expertise, where you can see how much of an expert you already are, and they just kind of help you put all of that together and bring it into your classroom. So please make sure that you get that book, too, as well. And, of course, don't forget to visit our website at myedtechlife, where you can check out this amazing episode and the other 329 wonderful episodes, where, I promise you, you will find a little something that you can sprinkle on to what you are already doing.

Fonz Mendoza: 1:15:09

Great, and before we wrap up, I want to give a big shout out to our sponsors, eduaid, book Creator and Yellowdig. Thank you so much for believing in our mission and allowing us to bring amazing conversations into the education space, where we can continue to grow together and, of course, to continue to learn together, which is definitely very important. So thank you so much and until next time, my friends, don't forget, stay techie.