What Neuroscience Reveals About AI in Education ft. Dr. Mark Hobson | My EdTech Life 353

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 0:29

Hello, everybody, and welcome to another great episode of My Ed Tech Life. Thank you so much for joining us on this wonderful day. And wherever it is that you're joining us from around the world, thank you as always for all of your support. We appreciate all the likes, the shares, the follows. Thank you so much for engaging it with our content. And I would absolutely love to thank our sponsors as well, Book Creator, Eduaide, and Peelback Education. Thank you so much for believing in our mission and allowing us to bring these amazing conversations into our space so we can continue to grow professionally and personally as well. And I am excited to welcome back a fantastic guest who I've had before here on the show, probably about a year ago or so. But I'm excited to bring him back, and that is Dr. Mark Hobson. Dr. Hobson, how are you doing today?

Dr. Mark Hobson: 1:23

I am fantastic, Dr. Fonz. Now I'm a one year later, I'm able to also recognize your doctorate. Very proud of your work.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 1:32

Thank you so much, Dr. Hobson. And I might add, now you are tied with your son, Dr. Luke Hobson, for being a two-time guest, also, as well. So I want to definitely give a big shout out to Dr. Luke Hobson, who is doing some amazing work in the ID space, instructional design space. So I'm excited to have you also here. And now you're both two-time guests. So, and I believe you are actually my very first father and son guest as well. So that is also something to uh, you know, be happy about. And for myself, it's just a great experience to be able to, you know, share and amplify your voices and the work that you guys are doing.

Dr. Mark Hobson: 2:19

For sure. I was uh thrilled as a as a parent when my son uh decided that he wanted to choose uh academia and go for his doctorate. And as we know, he's working at MIT and doing all things AI and also a college professor. So we could do a show just on Luke. But he is definitely um Dr. Hobson 2.0 is a definite better addition, I will say. Anyway, but thank you so much um for inviting me.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 2:53

Yes, of course, always a pleasure. So, Dr. Hobson, for our audience members who are joining us today, and maybe they haven't caught the show from a year ago, but we'll make sure we link that too as well so they can revisit that show. Can you give us a little brief introduction and what your context is within the education space?

Dr. Mark Hobson: 3:12

Absolutely. Um, I started off in my career as an educator. Um got my teaching certifications and then got my principal certification, and I was in uh secondary education, left that, went into business, spent almost 20 years in business administration, then got my PhD in business administration. And after that, as I was teaching college at Southern New Hampshire University in the business department, I became fascinated, Fonz, by how my students were learning and thinking to myself, what's going on? Right. I mean, if I was a coach and we were working on football plays and drills, I would be thinking about their muscles, about their movements, about how they were their flexibility. And I was, I thought to myself, I need to pay more attention to how people learn, to how their brains are functioning, to how they're reacting to me, responding to the material. Um, how well are they writing and being able to put the context together and apply it to their own lives? So I went back to school and I did I went to Northeastern and then to Johns Hopkins University. More information about how the intersection of mind, brain, and teaching work together. So I retired from Southern New Hampshire University uh two years ago, I believe. And I have been teaching part-time uh at the community college level, and we've physically moved to be closer to Luke and my new baby granddaughter. And uh I love teaching at Gray Bay Community College, such a great place, Fonz, to work with freshmen and sophomores. Wow, it's a such a trip. And still continuing to do research and writing in all things neuroscience and of course AI now, in terms of the emulation of AI tools uh on the human brain.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 5:14

Excellent. Well, that is definitely a great background and just something that is so interesting because oftentimes I think, even as educators, I know that many times in our preparation, we don't go that deep as far as that connection that is made. And as you know, uh Dr. Hobson, we've seen it all over. I mean, it's been since 2022. We're 2026 now. It's going almost on four years since we've seen the introduction of AI, thanks to Chat GPT. Of course, you've got CLUD, you've got Copilot, you've got so many platforms that are out there, and now you've got teacher-facing platforms, student-facing platforms. So oftentimes the big question is and has been now you know, what do we do as educators? Like they like we don't understand what is happening. We see that students might be just simply offloading the learning and they're concerned about critical thinking being something that is already long gone because students just want to finish the work and do the work right away. And so there's a lot of concern about that. And I know it's always playing out in the news, conversations, conferences, and so on. So I want to get your take, being the the experience and expertise that you have in neuroscience from 2022 as AI has been more forward-facing till now. In your experience, what are some of the things that you are seeing that might be something to be concerned about? But then also, what might be some of the things that you see might be wins as well?

Dr. Mark Hobson: 7:02

I see it mostly as a win. Uh I am not a worrywart uh about how learners are using this material if they're or they're or if they are over-relying upon it. And I understand the feelings of those who do, but let's just back up for a minute. Um think about this. From 2022 to now, in 2022, 4% of all businesses in the United States said, wow, this AI tool is tool is really cool. I'm going to use this in my operations and in my manufacturing. And four years later, it's 35%. And the most recent survey, 90% of all businesses said they hope to be able to use AI to um look at uh services, service delivery and manufacturing, etc. So our learners need to know more about artificial intelligence and how it works, and so do our faculty. So, my answer to your question, I hope, is that I believe faculty need to lean into AI at their, and if I may use the term, grade level. If I'm working in primary education as opposed to higher education, right, there's a whole different structure of our brains at the age of seven than at the age of 25. So our brains are growing and they're acting differently. So it's all about uh age-appropriate measures. Um, and of course, at the college level, yeah, I'm I'm concerned that high school and college students may be over-relying on Chat GPT or Microsoft Copilot. Those are the two tools that I primarily use. And so we have tools and we have policies and we have procedures in um in the academic to say, hey, this is what you can do and this is what you may not do. So there's an ethics uh lesson in there as well, isn't there, right? We teach students about what is appropriate behavior and what is not appropriate behavior.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 9:17

Excellent.

Dr. Mark Hobson: 9:18

Did I answer your question?

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 9:19

Yes, yes, excellent, excellent. You know, that coming from you, you know, I think what what I want to do is just get those different perspectives because I know that there could be one site that is just completely anti, then there's another site that's like gun-ho, let's go all the way. And then of course, there's the middle, the cautious advocates, just always, you know, making sure and and just seeing, you know, where's that middle ground between, you know, not using it and maybe over-reliance? What can we do to better the situation? So it's important that we learn, and especially uh, you know, from somebody who has experience in neuroscience, and also how might this affect learning in that sense. So I want to ask you, because I know that you describe the relationship between neuroscience and AI as a two-way street. Can you elaborate on that a little bit?

Dr. Mark Hobson: 10:09

I I call it a learning link. Um, I think there is a real your term of intersect is excellent. I say there is this space where artificial intelligence and um the way a human brain works and the way we should study and learn um has a true intersection. May I share a very personal example um recently from the good Dr. Luke Hobson? We were discussing the fact that uh I've got two books right now that I have written but haven't been released yet. And I've been editing them and spending endless hours editing them and also hiring some people, beta readers, to give me feedback. And Luke said, Dad, why aren't you using Chat GPT? And I said, Because I hadn't thought of that, son. What a great idea! So I've been feeding information into ChatGPT, a few paragraphs at a time, getting the feedback of how I could become a um a better writer, a crisper writer with fewer words. What a great tool for uh a college student to realize let me let me write this paragraph about content. Allow me to choose business administration. Let me let me let me write about entrepreneurship, write my two paragraphs, and then let me feed it into chat GPT and see how it makes my writing crisper, better. Is my point clearer? All those things happen with AI. Uh, they have those kinds of tools. Neuroscience, of course, as we know, has inspired AI, right? I mean, I asked Chat BT Chat GPT to tell me what artificial intelligence is, and it and it said artificial intelligence is defined as the application of computer systems able to perform tasks or produce output normally requiring human intelligence, meaning that it is human intelligence that's driving artificial intelligence, right? So AI mimics our brain functions, and that's how it is able to help us and to support us. Um AI also has uh something called, and I'm sure you probably heard of this, has neural networks. So creating neural networks that mimic brain neurons and synapses, and um, allow me to get a little nerdy. So the way that you and I learn something up here in our brains all day, every day, is that something catches our interest, and 90% of our learning goes through our eyes, and it passes through our limbic system, and our limbic system says to us, Oh, Dr. Fonz, this is of interest to you. You want to you want to remember this, and so it does, and then if you really are going to use it again, you pass it all the way back into the occipital lobe in the back of your brain, where it becomes long-term memory, and the more you use it, it becomes something called long-term potentiation, LTP, and that's something that you can remember long after this podcast. Two or three months go by, and you remember, oh yes, I had this guest, and they spoke about this. And how does that work for me, or how may I use that? What's in it for me? Yeah, well, what's in it? What's this information uh going? How is it going to help me? So, in the broadest concept, AI is is mimicking our biological neurons, where um neurons reach out to axons and axons reach out to dendrites and they make a connection. And when that connection happens, our brains actually have a spark. Wish we could see it, wish it could really happen. But that feeling that happens is a spark, and it makes a popping sound, as which is fabulous. So fascinating that there's all this activity takes place in our in our brain. So that's uh also um for our uh listeners, uh Dr. Fonz, that's also called Hebian Learning, um, uh named after the scientist who uncovered it.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 14:38

Excellent. Well, it just can't that's a kind of nice segue, also as well to this next question, because based on what you're saying, um, you know, and mimicking the learning, but I know that you mentioned also that AI can't genuinely feel emotion, but yet 90% of learning comes through that limbic system and our emotional center. So for a skeptical teacher who says AI will never replace that human connection and learning, what would you say?

Dr. Mark Hobson: 15:43

I would say that a lot of AI scientists are trying to do that. And no, it's not working yet. Um, so what happens is um because uh well I should I said 90%, it's it's accurate, but a hundred percent of our learning comes through our senses, whether we're hearing a lecture, or we're watching a video, or we're listening to, or we're having a really engaging conversation with one another, or or we're touching a model in a science class. So uh everything comes through hearing, taste, smell, touch, vision, and this leads to the fact that AI can't genuinely feel emotions, it can't sense, right? At least right now, it can't. There may be robotic tools in the future that might help it to sense, but here's another personal example. In one of my writings, I'm doing some fictional writing. I I tend to be nerdy in my writing, um, Fonz, hard to believe. So I'm not very emotional at times in my writing, and so I asked ChatGPT, how should I portray this character's emotion in this particular phase? And the answer was so interesting because it's basically said, Well, I really can't feel, but what I can tell you is that based on the information I have, the person might feel this way or that way. So this is perception, and and that's what's happening in artificial intelligence, is that there are simulations of emotional responses based on what AI is studying in human interactions and learning patterns which are simulated. So, no, I don't think that uh instructors are going to be replaced by robots anytime soon, but or and instead of but if if I'm teaching 25 learners, let's say, in an in-person classroom, and I could teach a hundred learners in an in-person online classroom with the help of artificial intelligence, wouldn't I want to do that? Wouldn't I want to share the message with more learners using um tools that artificial intelligence can support me with? Um so I'm I'm cautiously optimistic, but I think that what we're seeing is that AI is really helping us to understand how the brain hierarchically processes information, and it's trying to help us, I hope, to help learners learn. And in and as you I'm sure know, uh, in the world of medical science, uh AI is just changing medical science in profound ways in just the last two years.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 19:14

Yeah, nope, definitely that's something that I see. And kind of going back to what you're saying as far as the wouldn't we want to help and get more of that information out? And I think that's something that that at the end, I think as educators, we want to share that information. We want our students to succeed, we want our students to learn. But I think it just looking back at what and just through hearing experiences, it's more of the that, well, we just want to make sure that they have that recall. We and and that's something that I hear a lot in a little circles, you know, having that recall where before, you know, growing up, I had 20 phone numbers memorized. But then of course, there's a new generation that grew up with, you know, these devices in their hands. And, you know, why do I need to memorize 20 phone numbers when it's already stored here and I could just say, hey, Siri, call mom and it's gonna call mom and I don't need to have that recall. So I think uh, you know, kind of thinking about that in that generation, maybe it's just that fear of maybe not having that control that they once did, or that fear of before I was seen as the I guess the owner of this information and to give it to you was that kind of like, yes, I was able to help my student by giving them this information that now they're going to learn. So now I think that's where a lot of that fear comes from, too, as well, you know, coming in and seeing what the technology can do at such a rapid rate um based on the learning. And I know you mentioned you had a little uh anecdote, you know, about being able to recite the Declaration of Independence. Oh, yes, I still can't, yeah, and that you still can, you know, and I think that's where I think a lot of teachers right now are just kind of facing those questions of, well, now they don't need to memorize this because they already have that answer. Now, you know, but now, so I want to ask you just for our teachers that might be listening.

Dr. Mark Hobson: 21:25

Sure.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 21:25

As far as AI, some see, of course, it hindering the learning, some see it obviously advancing the learning and making sure that students can continue to grow and learn. And we talked that, you know, we mentioned that a little bit here. So, what exactly happens, maybe like on the brain function side of things? You know, we talked a lot about the sparks, we talked about that short-term going to long-term memory. So, what are some things that teachers might need to know as far as using those that might be currently using a student-facing platform for their students to, you know, make gains in their learning? What might be some things that might be occurring within that student's brain as far as the learning is concerned?

Dr. Mark Hobson: 22:08

So very interesting question. Um the the gold standard for us as instructors, and I'm gonna um it's it's a we thing, right? It's not, it's not um it's a we and us thing when we talk about educators. Those of us who have been educators, who have been in the classroom, who teach others, we understand there's there's A fraternity here or a community. And while LTP is the gold standard of what we want to try to accomplish for our learners. So they learn, I'm going to talk from a college perspective. I'm teaching in a 16-week term. I want that student to remember this material long after the four weeks of four to four weeks of a of a the first month. I want them to be able to remember it at the midterm and at the final and then after the course is over, right? But there's one other thing that uh I would like to share with our our group today is that we also want our learners to have deep learning. And AI is um utilizing deep learning to understand more about how the human brain works. Deep learning is actually a subset of machine learning, and there's some real complexities with this, but the the bottom line is that deep learning takes place in us when we become so engrossed in a project that we don't even realize the time that we've spent. How many teachers and uh students would would like to say, wow, the 55 minutes are already gone by, the bell's ringing, it's the class is ending. So, how can we get our learners engrossed in topics and material so deep learning happens? And I would suppose to you that we can use AI tools for helping students perform research so they become so engrossed in the topic that deep learning takes place, and we can try to replicate that. Uh if I was doing a lesson plan at a high school level, I would probably use AI once or twice a week to help um reinforce the learning that's taking place in my classroom, depending upon what kind of tools I have in the classroom, of course. Do you think that helped answer your question, Bon? Yeah. Yeah, no, no, no. Okay.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 25:41

Yeah. No, no, no. That really helps out a lot, you know, just in making sure that understanding is because I know, like, yeah, I had talked to you a little bit earlier, too. Is there's there's that conversation, and and it comes up and it's here talking about too much use, too much screen time, too much use of technology, and so on. And I feel that what happens many much most of the time is that parents see, you know, technology, whether it's generative AI or actually like a content uh specific platform, ed tech seems to be just jumbled up like in one pod. And there is no distinction being made of, hey, this is you know, content-specific practice, or this is like research-based for you know for project-based learning and things of that sort. So I know that there are many parents that are saying, well, the students are on the screen way too much. And yes, there needs to be a distinction made of what is intentional screen time, like we talked about, and like you mentioned right now, where the student is really diving in deep to content and not just looking at it superficially, but at the end, they're gonna create a product that demonstrates the content mastery. And at least for a teacher, that's great feedback to see, hey, this student uh does understand the content, or for the teacher to be able to see, hey, you know what? I'm seeing this misconception play out in several of the students. So now I can adjust my lesson or work with that small group. So it's like that feedback loop there also uh that really helps. And the technology is just great at being able to do that. And I go back, I go back to my days where, you know, I we would do exit tickets and then uh we would have handouts. And then by the end of the day, I had a corner of my desk full of exit tickets from three classes, you know, with 90 sticky notes or 90 handouts. And at the end of the day, after you're done, that just looks very ominous, you know. And then how quickly are we able to give that feedback to the students so we can make those adjustments? And yes, so now, you know, with intentional use of our devices and specific platforms. I mean, there are platforms already there that are already giving the students that proper grade level feedback to be able to help them and the teachers able to monitor that as you know, a main dashboard to be able to also spot check overall what the students are doing. And I think that that is something that is fantastic. But I think on the other side of things, honestly, like and I'm just being speaking honestly here from my experiences, I think it's also that teachers feel they're losing that control. And I think that's that's the scary part where like I mentioned to you that as being the person in front of the room and seeing being being seen as that subject matter expert, now I can go into a platform and ask a question and then get probably maybe the exact same answer, or maybe be able to go in deeper. And I think that's where that fear kind of spawns and from a lot of educators. But at the end of the day, I feel that as an educator, my job, at least in my experience, has always been to be the guide in the learning and be able to make sure that the students stay on task and that they're learning, but also being able to tap into their emotional side, that part that the technology can't do, being able to read a room and being able to adjust learning for somebody that may come in and you see them maybe possibly having a bad day. I mean, those are those adjustments that you make. The learning still takes place. You're creating that environment for the students. But again, a lot of it now we're seeing a lot of that fear that comes in, you know, from what you see on social media. And a lot of parents just need to understand that yes, that although the student may be on a screen, it doesn't mean that it's not being intentionally used and in a way that's going to help the student continue to grow. And then of course there's the difference where maybe this the parents are seeing that the student is at home just watching YouTube videos and maybe spending time on Minecraft, and then they just kind of bundle that up with, oh no, it's just too much screen time. But there is that distinction that needs to be made on that screen time, I feel. And uh, so yeah, uh, I'm absolutely there with you, you know, where the tools now can help give that immediate feedback, help the teacher and support the teacher to adjust the lessons, and maybe, you know, that they're able to go in a lot deeper than they once could, because now they don't have to just teach that superficially. Now, thanks to the tools that deeper learning takes place, where the student gets also that heightened sense of kind of dopamine in the sense of, oh my gosh, I'm learning this, and now I'm creating something with it too, as well. And here's my digital learning artifact that I can share with my teacher, my classmates, with my parents, with the world, and get an authentic audience. So I think now it's just something that has been some like amazing now. We're living in a period where now, like you mentioned, a hundred students in one class and you're able to support all of them. I think that's something that is fantastic. So I want to uh continue here. I wanted to ask you as far as you know, shared learning principles. You know, we talk about you know, AI and the brain, they do share some key principles. Can you tell me or walk us through a little bit of that as far as the learning data, how the brain learns and maybe how AI learns, and maybe where that intersection is, just to bring some clarification here to our audience?

Dr. Mark Hobson: 31:52

Absolutely. And I was thinking as you were uh just speaking about classroom lessons and takeaways, wouldn't it be great if at an age-appropriate level um the listeners would ask, would work with their students to learn about what AI is? How does AI work? And if I'm a middle schooler or uh high schooler or a college-age learner, do they know? Do they really understand how AI works, or do they just know how to use Chat GPT? Uh so I think it's important to understand how things work. And as learners and as faculty, we want to know how AI uh works. And thank you for your question. Um, AI and the brain share very key principles because AI is designed on the human brain. So that's a part we don't need to be afraid of it. It's it's designed on us, on how we think. And brains learn through senses, experience, feedback, and reinforcement, and AI learns through taking that information of those pieces and then optimizing algorithms so AI can connect with the information, and that's called something called back propagation, which is like what the heck does that mean? And it it's an algorithm that trains uh AI networks to detect errors backwards, and this is why um Dr. Fonds AI is improving. So AI is giving us less errors and having less hiccups when it's doing research for us because it is following something called a chain rule. And for those of us who enjoy math or don't, it's a it's a part of calculus, and it's a fundamental theorem that is like there's a derivative of this composite function, and with AI, AI is able to handle two functions in the same calculus process. So um there's like an outer function and an inner function, and and that's how AI is able to come close to the emotional perspectives that we are born with in the and and nature is amazing, her feeling system, that core of who we are, is right in the middle of our brains. It's protected deep in the in the middle. And so um what AI does is generalize because that's what humans do. Humans, the human brain learns that I'm gonna say this term and using my hands and it's a podcast, but it learns on the edges, right? So we we learn things on the edges and then we learn things deeply. And when we learn something new, the human brain grabs that attention and goes, that is new, that is different. Oh, I really like this, and that gets our attention. Well, AI is doing the same thing, so if AI learns something new, then it wants to seek out and research all the possibilities of what that new information is for us. Personally, I'm finding cool, I think that's amazing because that's what the human brain does. We're so our brains are so highly energy efficient and adapt. It weighs less than three pounds, and and and it's it uses uh uh the power of a 20-watt light bulb, hence the old joke of someone who's a dim bulb, and um it's made up of these white and gray cells, all right, and it's just uh an amazing tool, right? I mean, maybe the greatest invention in the world is the human brain. So AI in its uh learning principles process with this backpropagation is trying to become as human as possible or human-like in its processing of information and reporting of information and and reaction of information. And the last piece on this, um, Doctor, is if you're afraid of something, then you're going to fill in the blanks about that person or that thing. You're gonna be like, oh, you're gonna speculate, you're gonna generalize. And I would say to all of us as as as faculty members and learners, try not to do that. Instead, go out and learn more about it, right? If you're if you're worried about different parts of artificial intelligence, then go out and learn more about it. Use research tools from reputable uh sources to find out more, like listening to my ed tech life. I mean, you're trying to gather as much information for us as possible so we become more of an informed consumer. And AI is trying to do that too. It's trying to become similarly efficient as our brains are. Uh, and and the the human brain, by the way, is 86 billion neurons, and um that is an incredibly efficient use of space, if you speak in our brains compared to the rest of our bodies. What a what a great tool we have.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 38:12

Absolutely. I mean, like you mentioned, 86 billion neurons in there, and I mean, here we have that available. And I think it's just like you mentioned, you know, doing research, going out there, looking, it's something that is important. And I feel that many times, obviously, due to social media and things being put out so quick, you know, uh it just depends on what algorithm you're on to as well, what it is that you're listening to, yes, you know, and you know, but I I have always been a big proponent uh growing up, uh, you know, always hearing, you know, be like a Berean, go do your research. That is what I always have done. And it's not like believe the very first thing, it's always let's go out and do some research and and find out, you know, hey, you know, both sides, you know, both papers. What can you deduce from both of these? And then find that middle ground. Do you see the pros? Do you see the cons? Do you see a middle ground? And like you mentioned, that that's been my goal for these past now going on four years since 2022, mainly talking about AI, AI and education and things of that sort, is just to bring more information so that we can become educated consumers, like you said, and learn more about the neuroscience and learn more about actually the similarities, kind of like the the the that you have between now we're talking about neuroscience, and then there's also you've mentioned throughout the the show, kind of like the AI equivalent of neuroscience, which has been just fantastic for me to learn because I never saw it that way. I mean, like the the way that I saw this, being more of that math background, is always like, yes, it's it's the AI will statistically predict the next work depending on the context. However, one thing that I've noticed is like the platforms are getting a lot better and the way that they are responding, where now I'm like, wow, like you know, there has been an increased improvement uh from 2022 till now, which ties to what you have been saying in this show. And I know for a lot of the users and excuse me, a lot of the educators and listeners to of this show, I am sure that in even in their experience, they have been able to see not only on their own through their own practice, but even some of these um teacher-facing, student-facing platforms, and how much better they have gotten at helping students. I mean, there are platforms out there that can easily uh, I mean, just with the simple use of translation tools or even re-leveling a reading from, let's say, a fifth grade level to a third grade level, just to provide that student support. At the end, imagine the work that you're cutting out where when I was in the classroom, and let's say that I had a new student that was coming in with uh a different reading level, it was like, well, now I have to grab that original writing or that PDF document, I have to give it to the pullout teacher, the pullout teacher needs to go and do some work on that or translate it or re-level it. And then by the time the student gets the reading, uh, you know, whatever it may be, I've already moved on to the next lesson. And it was so hard for them to keep up. But when you have a tool that can do immediately on the spot, and the pullout teacher no longer becomes a pullout teacher, where now they are a push teacher where they come in and they're able to see, like, oh my goodness, like in real time, the student is keeping up with the rest of the class and they can adjust the reading level without anybody knowing, and but they're still there participating and everybody's together. And of course, as a teacher, you still offer that support. That push teacher comes in and they're offering that support as needed, but now the the system is more efficient, and that's what you're talking about a lot, like where our brain is the the efficiency uh that it it produces based on our novelty of learning. And now we're like, okay, like this is something that is novel to me that I want to learn more of. And then you get into it, you get into this flow state. 55 minutes later, you're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe like I dove in that deep.

Dr. Mark Hobson: 42:40

Yes.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 42:41

Well, now with the tools, also now that helps the students get into that mode too, where now it's like, hey, I I was able to re-level my learning and I'm still understanding the lesson, and I am in it, and and it sticks, you know, and that's I think that's something that is fantastic. So, I mean, just the equivalence that we're seeing between the neuroscience concepts and AI, to me, today I've learned so much and it's just so novel. Again, even talking about the biological learning uh of ourselves as learners and then what AI is doing. And I I think like after this episode, you know, the listeners will hopefully have a better picture and a greater picture and a greater sense of how similar things can be, yes, with those slight differences. But yes, you can still remain a a cautious advocate, but hopefully this episode will help the understanding of what AI and how AI is working, and how we're working right alongside it with the neuroscience aspect of it and what occurs in our own bodies as well. So I think this is fantastic. This is wonderful.

Dr. Mark Hobson: 44:00

Well, so uh we'll remind all our instructors who might be listening that we want to reinforce to our learners to read, recite, repeat, and remember. So the four Rs are very similar to what AI does in um something called spiking neural networks. So our brains and our students, if we ask them to read and then to recite and then to repeat, they will remember. And that's what's happening on the uh in the AI machine language tools. So uh I was I'm very thrilled to have been able to be with you today. And I have so much more that I can say about this topic. So invite me back again whenever you're not sick of me. And uh I'd I'd love to talk more uh about some of the uh incredible energy efficient um learning tools that are being developed in AI that will help our students uh uh in our culture, really, uh, you know, our economy and and uh and humanity.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 45:10

Yeah.

Dr. Mark Hobson: 45:11

I think AI is an exciting tool.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 45:13

Yeah, absolutely. And I think. Know what maybe and I'm just gonna throw it out there, you know. Since I have you on here and you you definitely might have some influence, but I think it would be great to have a father-son show. So imagine getting both Dr. Hobson's here on the show and talking about precisely that topic, you know, and seeing what are some of the tools that are out there, and of course, having that neuroscience behind it, and then the practical aspect from Dr. Luke 2.0 or Dr. Hobson 2.0, as you said, Dr. Hobson 2.0. And I think that would be something that would be fantastic. And I think our audience will definitely reap a lot of learning from that. And so I'm just really excited. But uh, Dr. Hobson, thank you so much for being an amazing guest and sharing your knowledge and just helping, helping us, our audience, helping me, like I always tell people this is my my personal professional development that I have for an hour that I get to share with the world. So I think you thank you so much for being here and being so gracious with your knowledge and your your support of the show, also as well. Thank you so much.

Dr. Mark Hobson: 46:26

You're welcome. I have a new website. So if anybody wants to reach out to me and ask for more information or contact or support or help, I that's as you my life is on the teaching side, Dr. Luke Hobson's life is on the learning uh science and development side, right? But I'm my I love teaching and sharing anything about teaching. So it's as simple as www.drmarkhobson.com. So uh if I can help anybody who is listening to this presentation, I will do so.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 47:00

Perfect. Excellent. We'll make sure we link not only the last episode that you were on, but we'll make sure we pop that link also in the show notes for all our audience members to be able to click on that and get ready to just dive in and reach out to you for any questions. But Dr. Hobson, as you know, the last episode you were here, I always love to end the show with these next three questions. And I know I know. Yeah, so hopefully you're ready for those. And you know, I know that from a year ago to now, a lot has changed. So let's start off with the very first question that I always ask. And as we know, every superhero has a pain point or a weakness. So we know for Superman that kryptonite was what weakened him. So I want to ask you in the current state of education, and it can be any topic in education, whether it's higher ed or elementary or you know, whatever it is that you feel, what would you consider to be your current edu kryptonite?

Dr. Mark Hobson: 47:59

I want higher education to cost less. And what hurts me, pains me, is seeing students go leave college with more debt than a house. And it just that stops us, right? Franz, that stops us from generating more deeper learners and and people who are more highly educated. And I understand that educ degrees don't necessarily equate to learning, but come on. We all know that people with uh at more advanced degrees make more money and they're more successful and they have a happier life and they live longer. Don't we want that for everyone? I do. So that's my I it bothers me that higher ed costs so much money for our people for our folks.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 48:59

Excellent. Great answer, Dr. Hobson. I definitely agree with you on that. So, question number two: if you could have a billboard with anything on it, what would it be and why?

Dr. Mark Hobson: 49:11

It would be, I have given so much thought to this one. It would be a 3D billboard of the human brain that would uh change uh uh over time to allow people to see deeper into uh different aspects of the brain, into the different uh five areas of functions of the brain, because I feel that the more we understand about our brains, the better we're going to be as learners and as human beings. The more we the more I know about your brain and my brain, the more I'm gonna have compassion and empathy and care for you as a person, right? As a as another person on the planet. So brain learning is really important, and I'd love to have a 3D uh billboard.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 50:04

Excellent. Well, you know what? I was thinking now that they have that giant monstrosity over there in uh Las Vegas, that big old sphere. Oh, imagine having that, like an actual 3D brain there, and then you're just gonna circuit, you see everything just firing off and everything. I was just thinking about that right now. I mean, that would be just a learning lesson like there for a whole day, a whole week, and just understanding the way the brain works. I mean, that's fantastic. Why just stick with the billboard? Let's just make that whole Las Vegas sphere into a you work on that.

Dr. Mark Hobson: 50:40

I mean, I'll pay you to work on that.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 50:43

Okay, well, if there's anybody that's listening to this episode, any educators that know anybody that works there at the Las Vegas sphere, if we can make that happen, put us in contact with somebody and we would definitely do that. That'd be great. All right, Dr. Hobson, my last question. All right. Uh so my last question to you is if you can trade places with a single person for a day, all right, who might that be and why?

Dr. Mark Hobson: 51:11

I'm not saying this to sound political, but I would like to trade places with Gavin Newsom and be the governor of California. And the reason why is because I have long um admired um California's educational system. And um I would love to be someone who could oversee what was happening first of all, I'd love to live in California. You have some nice weather, and I'm in New Hampshire, and right now it's oh two degrees. So I has a warmer weather climate on a regular basis, but also fonts, just think about that education that goes on out there, right? And the research at places like Berkeley and University of San Francisco. So that would be something that uh I I would love to be able to help. Uh and it's and most of the uh schooling is free for residents. So boy, I would really love to be able to help embellish what goes on in that uh type of environment.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 52:13

So excellent, wonderful. Obviously, teacher at heart, Dr. Hobson. It really comes out, you know, always wanting to help and support. And I think that's fantastic. And I think that I myself too, I I I would like to think that I I have always been a teacher at heart and and still continue to do so just because that that's really why I do what we what I do here on the podcast, just to continue to help learn. But I I agree with you, you know, it's just learning is freedom. And I think that is just uh for me, it's just to be able to learn has helped so much. And so, yes, I can definitely see your heart for it. So thank you so much again, Dr. Hobson, for being an amazing guest and just sharing your knowledge. And I thank you for everything that that you do. And I can't wait. Maybe we can definitely maybe give uh maybe you can uh get on the phone with uh Dr. Hobson 2.0 and be like, hey, guess guess who guess who brought up an idea and see if we can make that happen. That would be fantastic. I'm sure we can. Thank you so much. Thank you for everything and for all our audience members. Thank you so much, as always, for all of your support. Again, make sure you visit our website, myedtech.life, or you can check out this amazing episode and the other 351 wonderful episodes where I promise you you will find some knowledge nuggets that you can sprinkle onto what you are already doing great. And again, a big shout out to our sponsors, Book Creator, Edu8, and Peel Back Education. Thank you for believing in our mission. And my friends, until next time, don't forget, stay techie.