How Mega Minds Brings Real-World CTE to Classrooms ft. Eric Tao & Austin Levinson | My EdTech Life 349

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 0:12

Hello, everybody, and welcome to another great episode of My Ed Tech Life. Thank you so much for joining us on this wonderful day. And wherever it is that you're joining us from around the world, thank you as always for all of your support. We appreciate all the likes, the shares, the follows. Thank you so much for engaging with our content, sharing our content. And thank you so much just for you know sharing your comments with us. We, you know that we do what we do for you because we love to bring you these amazing conversations so that way we may continue to grow professionally and personally as well. And I want to give a big shout out to our sponsors. Thank you so much, Book Creator, Eduate, Yellow Dig, and Peelback Education. Thank you so much for believing in our mission so we can bring these great conversations into our education space. And I am excited to welcome back two guests. Now, one guest, Eric Tao. The last time he was on our show was back on September 12th, 2023, when he just introduced me to this amazing platform, his amazing platform that they're going to be talking about today, which is Mega Minds. So I'm really excited to see all of those updates since 2023. And our the our co-guest, or the the next guest, I should say, uh, and we can actually we can all be co-hosts too as well. So we'll we'll say the next co-host here is Austin Levinson, who was just on the show about five episodes ago. But this time you're listening to him in English. So thank you both for being here on this uh wonderful evening. It's a nice chilly evening here in South Texas. Hopefully the weather is nice wherever it is, where you're joining us from, from Colombia. And Eric, where is it that you're joining us from? New Jersey.

Eric Tao: 1:55

And unfortunately, this it's rain and sleet out right now.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 1:58

Oh, New Jersey. So it's really cold out there. But I am excited about today's conversation because again, Mega Mines two years ago is when I first found out about it, and it was just great the immersive learning and that space. But today we get to see a little bit more updates that are happening as far as the learning is concerned. So I'm really excited about that. So let's go ahead and dive in. But before we get really, really into the meat of it, uh, Eric, for our audience members who may not be familiar with your work just yet, or they haven't listened to episode 230 yet. Can you give us a little brief introduction and what your context is within the ed tech space?

Eric Tao: 2:42

Sure. Uh, okay. Um, my name is Eric Tao. I'm the founder and CEO of Mega Minds. Uh, Mega Minds is an AI-powered learning platform that puts students inside immersive simulations uh with little AI characters. They're sort of like we call them NPCs. They're like little video game characters that the students interact with uh within this immersive environment. And that the the the and we can program the AI to act as guides, as tutors, as mentors, as coworkers, as bosses, and you'll you'll get a little taste of that a little later. Um, but as far as my background goes, um, I'm not an educator, although I was raised in a family of educators. So my my mother is was an English teacher, my father was a university professor, my wife has worked for New York City schools for the past 15 years. Um, but I have a tech background. So I I worked at Google um about a decade ago, uh, very closely with the with the VR team. Uh and we invented some really powerful uh technology at the time, uh, some of which trickled its way into uh what we're gonna show you later. Um but but you know it was it was um basically link-based immersive experiences. Okay. A way to, uh and this was back in 2016. So, you know, it was four years prior to the pandemic. And, you know, and you know, I I recognize at the time we were doing kind of silly things. We were doing like virtual field trips right around this time, uh um, you know, in 2016, I took a VR camera down Fifth Avenue and filmed like Tiffany's and Macy's Windows displays, and and we put them into you know this technology that we'll show you as like a virtual field trip. But the whole time I was thinking there's there's there's there's way more powerful things that we could do. Uh and naturally my my my mind always went uh to education and what we could do there. Uh and that that's sort of the the beginning of the pathway that led us to to to to today.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 4:31

Nice, excellent. So that's great. And so for our audience members, you heard it, great background. Eric's got a lot of experience. And really, honestly, I can't wait for you, the our viewers that are going to be watching the video, but even our listeners, even when you get to hear the demo of Mega Minds, you're gonna be blown away by the work that Eric and Austin are doing. So, Austin, for our audience members that are catching you for the first time, getting to know you, can you give us a little brief background and what your context is within the education space?

Austin Levinson: 5:01

Sure. Thanks, Alfonsoan. It's a pleasure to be here again. Uh I am an educator. I was a classroom teacher for about 20 years, and I I have developed STEAM programs. Uh, I developed uh gifted and talented programs. Uh I was big into PBL, design thinking. I was always uh thinking about engagement. That was always uh I always thought that you know there were teachers who had all their T's dotted and I's crossed, uh, but really weren't as engaging, didn't have the charisma to really reach the students, and they were like teaching with one hand behind their back. And so I always spent a lot of time focusing on and thinking about how to bring that enthusiasm, that excitement, and that energy and give the students the center of the learning experience. That was always what I did as a classroom teacher. And now I've got the opportunity to do that with Mega Minds. And so it's been a great pleasure to bring some of my ideas about creativity, about many of the facets of critical thinking and about metacognition into uh an immersive learning space that really gives students uh agency in a way that very few things can. They really are at the helm of their experience. And I think that right now, in the end of 2025, the world that we're living in, anybody goes out to a restaurant, even to a soccer game, a baseball game, you see people buried in their phones. And so to try to engage students right now is harder than ever. People have been in education for for as long as as I have, and and even even less time, see that over time it's harder and harder to engage them. And so that I'd say to call it an engagement crisis is something that we've got to find smarter and more interesting and more unusual and more innovative ways to capture their attention to be able to foster incredible learning growth.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 6:46

Excellent. I love all of that. And that's why I'm excited about today's show because I mean we're gonna be talking a lot about mega minds. But before we get into it too as well, it's like you mentioned, you know, and Eric at the very beginning and and Austin, you know, something Eric, you working in that ed tech background, talking about, you know, uh immersive technology, ARVR. And then of course, now we're talking about AI in education, whether it's generative AI. Uh, and Austin, you do uh on LinkedIn, that's really the conversation. You're always joining in in those chats too, and always have some wonderful things to say. But as we're entering now, like you mentioned, I think there's gonna be a new phase. And I think what we're seeing now and what you're doing through Mega Minds is definitely something that is gonna be very different because usually now we're seeing a lot of productivity tools for teachers. So it's a lot of teacher-facing tools. You know, there are some student-facing tools, but again, it's really the engagement is a little different. And I know, Austin, you talk about engagement where really it's what the student puts in, then they get an output, they get feedback, and so on. But one thing that you mentioned, Austin, was student agency and the importance of that and how to hook the learner and find a different and innovative way to do that. And like Eric and and you though through the work of Mega Minds, I think that we are gonna start seeing the shift in that immersive technology now where the students can be in it, in the learning, and have that student agency as well. But I want to ask you, and I'll start with you, Austin, how do you see this transition unfolding maybe in this coming year, 2026? And where does Mega Minds fit in in that transition?

Austin Levinson: 8:35

Well, we were speaking to somebody just today, was telling us that uh agency or actually engagement has really become a more a bigger problem this school year than it has ever been before. And she noticed that in this in a virtual school setting, it's a it's a really massive problem. And there were and a lot of the platforms that exist, there might be a slide deck, there might be videos that they watch, there may be some graphics or point-based things, but how much of that is really gamifying it? It's I mean, I think the students, an astute middle school student, and especially some disenfranchised ones or ones with ADHD or other neurodivergent um you know situations, they're seeing through that or they're not really getting hooked by it. It's not really working over time. And so the the immersive experience, and and until you really try it, until you've played or been inside a video game and feel that excitement of exploring, of looking around, of moving around, of discovery. Um, and and the interesting thing is that it feels like a game, it looks like a game, the controls are like a game, and it's definitely not a game, Mega Minds. It's definitely very intentional in its learning goals, in its purpose, and it's it's the scaffolding that's in place because of the AI tutors. And that's what we're going to show you. But the AI companions that are within that immersive space, that combination is something that propels it into a different playing field in terms of engagement and in terms of students wanting to be there.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 10:06

Excellent. Now, Austin, like I I like that view that you're coming in from that pedagogical sense as well. But now, Eric, turning to you on the on the ed tech side of this, you have been with living within this ed tech space, like you mentioned, your background working with Google and the work that you've done prior to pandemic with AR, VR, immersive technologies, and now with mega mines. So, for from your perspective, I know you're pretty gonna be pretty in deep as far as seeing trends and the changes that are occurring. So, I want to ask you, how do you see this unfolding in 2026? And again, the same question that I asked Austin, how do you see Mega Minds fitting in into that from your perspective?

Eric Tao: 10:51

Yeah, definitely. So my perspective is always gonna lean towards the technological and what I saw with AI in education, it's not far from what we saw with AI and really any field. The first companies were were basically picking the low-hanging fruit, right? So they were, they were, they were creating wrappers around LLMs to use the generative tools to make productivity tools. But the key thing, I think, to take into account is those tools were designed for the the uh for what LLMs do best, not necessarily for what for for pedagogy or for what you know to to for how students learn. It was what can an LL do that can make a teacher's job easier? Oh, it can generate a quiz with the press of a button. You can now generate a slide deck with the press of a button. That was, you know, you can map that across every field, photography, for uh um uh graphic design, uh, you know, that was the first layer of AI companies. I think what we're seeing now is um a shift into phase two, where phase two companies are taking, I don't know if creative is the right word, but uh a more unique approach to incorporating AI to uh really affect pedagogy, uh, not only um uh uh AI that interact with students, but also what's happening on the back end. So AI has the agents have the remarkable ability to make sense of massive amounts of data, right? So when you're talking about MegaMinds, you're talking about a 3D space, right? On a typical learning platform, you're able to serve up insights via clicks, time between clicks, and student inputs. And that's really all the data that you have to really get insights from for uh for the teacher. In our environment, we have the three, the whole 3D broom. We have what we have what the student is doing in the 3D room, where they're looking, who they're talking to, all of that uh uh can be collated together into and form insights uh that can be served to the teacher. And I'll we can we can get into that a little bit later. Um so I think um one of the things that we do is we focus on skills. We don't focus on tools. You know, we we for so number one for us, it's about letting kids use students use AI in a productive way. It's you know, let's let's use AI to help them develop their critical thinking skills. Um, unfortunately, we don't believe that that's possible in the text interface. We actually think that the text interface is not productive for learning and that it is counterproductive and that it can lead to shortcuts, it can lead to cheating. So it's for us, it's about finding unique approaches towards AI. And as I mentioned, the second way we go about it is uh making teachers, uh giving them the information and the insights to be even more efficient and more effective at their jobs. Uh for us, it's not about uh generating uh uh content for them. Uh it's about using AI as as a way to surface the data that they need that they've simply never had access to before. And then let's watch the sparks fly when they have when they know that you know one of their uh that Jimmy is uh um you know doing really well in this area, but not so well in this area, and they know that instantaneously. Uh that that's it that's that's a game changer.

Austin Levinson: 13:55

And to and to add to that, if I may, and I think it also, you know, the holy grail in for many years when I was a teacher and I think it still exists is is differentiation. It's like this holy grail, it's extremely difficult. People who say, I've got it, they they probably don't have it because it's it's a it's a moving target, the students are gonna change. And so to have all of that information that we get much richer data than in just a text face, text-based interface, having all that data gives the teachers actionable information to be responsive teachers, right? I think we we've heard a lot about this in progressive education circles. We want to be responsive to student needs. We don't want to just follow the curriculum. You know, we talk about fidelity. Fidelity to what? To a curriculum or to the student needs, to the student needs. And so if we want to do that, we're we're providing the teachers with the real fodder that they can use to personalize, to differentiate, to form small groups, and it keeps the teacher always at the center of the experience. That human element is ever important in Mega Minds, and it really is the key to the student success.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 14:59

I love that. Yeah, and you, I mean, you hit on so many great points, both both of you, that I kind of want to just pull a little bit of strands here. And so, like you mentioned, Eric, one thing that I loved is that you're focusing on the skills, not the tools. And what we're seeing, again, the obviously from 2022, everything or a lot of the platforms that are out there are very text-based. Again, teachers, like you mentioned, are able to generate uh, you know, worksheets, uh presentations, and so on. And then on the student side of it, too, it's just very text driven. There are some companies out there that are, you know, getting a you're taking that creative approach in putting in, you know, some bots and so on. But the fact of the matter is, it's just really still seems like substitution in the sense of, you know, going from paper to a digital document, but then you're still gonna get that digital answer back. But the difference that I do see through Mega Minds, and again, because I first heard about it in uh 2023, and what I've seen that I loved about it was that immersion into the learning, where it's pretty much sort of can be like a choose your own adventure. You're engaging the student and they're still going to be learning in a way that makes sense, which takes me back to what Austin was saying. I was having a conversation earlier today with one of our uh content specialists for mathematics. And, you know, being an assessment, I see data all the time and I paint the picture that the data gives me and present that. And oftentimes it leads to, you know, showing us where the areas of deficiencies are. And like you mentioned, the important part about it is it's not necessarily that maybe the curriculum would be deficient, but it could be that maybe in this particular uh module or unit or standard, maybe you know, Dr. Fonds doesn't understand the, you know, the concept in that way. Um, you know, and so the data tells me the story. Is it is it the teacher? Maybe, maybe not. Is it the student? Well, maybe if it's the student, how might how else might we present that teaching for them, like you mentioned, and be responsive as opposed to just, hey, here's the curriculum, stick with it, day one, day two, day three, day four. And it's like, wait a minute, you know, hold on to this. You know, we need to be uh able to make that shift and adapt to our student learning. So I think that you the way that you describe this is something that really gets me excited, and especially now, gentlemen, and you know, and I had uh Dr. Mark Essex on the show uh a couple of episodes back, and he's got a book called Captivate. And his big thing is the attention span of students due to them being on social media and TikTok and things of that sort, where you really only have three to five seconds to hook them and engage them. So, one of the things that I want to ask about here is from your experience, obviously working through Mega Minds, you know, the immersive uh the immersive experience that you offer, how do you see the students and in in their experience engaging or actually re-engaging in the learning based on their experiences with Fortnite, Roblox, TikTok, social media? So I'll start with you, Austin. What have you seen? And just tell us a little bit about that.

Austin Levinson: 18:26

Well, so I think first it's important to note that if you expect there to be a magic bullet, you know, they still have to put forth effort, and we want them to put forth effort. If there's not thinking involved, and oh, I could just go through this and I'm just gonna go through this room and I'm just gonna magically learn. No, there's still thinking required, and it needs to be, it needs to be framed in that way, right? But the experience is gonna be vastly different. And one of the biggest ways is when I think about my experience with um with many of my students over the years. I always had a classroom norm around ask for help. And we tried to create a culture of a safe space to ask for help. And it's difficult to ask for help. If I'm 13 years old and my friends are in the classroom, how likely is it that I'm gonna raise my hand and ask for help? It's hard for many adults to ask for help. The key with the AI companions within the immersive space is that it's a safe space to ask for help. There's no judgment. They're gonna be able to ask for help and they're able to get help in their zone of proximal development, depending upon where they are, and they're gonna feel safe doing so again and again. And that's something that is is is hard to quantify, but is worth gold. I mean, that touches right into the social emotional components of learning that are impeding a lot of learners from progressing, and it's impeding the teachers from getting the information eventually as well, because they're not gonna get the information right away either. And the affective filter, for those of you familiar with Steven Crashin, who I'm a big devotee of, the affective filter for language acquisition stops people from wanting to speak, from wanting to. Ask questions from wanting to get help. So that's for me such a big component that we're really providing that safe space. And that's a major inclusive element and accessibility element for a wide range of learners, which is so important.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 20:13

I love that. Now, Eric, onto you, especially on the tech side of things. I know you mentioned a little bit earlier, you know, being within the experiences itself, the teachers being able to see, maybe, and like Austin was saying, those areas of struggle that the students may have, but now they have that companion that they can easily ask a question to. So how about yourself? What is it that you have seen how or that you have experienced also how Mega Minds is engaging or re-engaging students in their learning?

Eric Tao: 20:47

Yeah, this is a great opportunity, I think, to tell our little story about uh an intervention study that we did uh in the spring with the Title I School of Florida. So I I actually met the the um the head of the school at FATC in January, and you know, I showed her an early prototype of of our of our AI uh um companions in in the world, and she was she was very impressive. She called me up in March and was like, hey, I have a cohort of students who are way behind in math. Uh in fact, there were a group of eighth to ninth graders, and 0% of them were at grade level. In fact, 83% of them were two grade levels or more behind. And she said, I'm gonna do uh an intervention uh with them. And you know, I want to offer you an opportunity. You I know you have a middle school math, you know, uh uh bundle. Um, would you like to be part participate? And I said, of course. This this sounds like an amazing uh opportunity. So now these were these are teenagers now. There they were eighth and ninth graders who, through no fault of their own, uh in in at the beginning of the pandemic, when they were supposed to be learning foundational math skills in fourth and fifth grade, they never got the opportunity to maybe they didn't have devices, maybe they didn't have internet access. This is this is Title I uh um, you know, school. And through no fault of their own, they'll those learning gaps stayed with them. And so they're now teenagers and they believe that they were they that are not good at math, that they were, that they uh um, you know, just not math people. Okay. Um by the end of the semester, so in June, that we got the results back, 67% of the students who used Mega Minds got to grade level. And only 22% of those in the control group and the using regular intervention techniques were able to get there uh uh get uh to achieve the same. So um Austin and I were able to do a two-hour down uh download with the teacher and with uh uh you know a number of the students, and we kept hearing the same thing over and over and over. And that was I could practice. I could practice with the AIs, I could say I don't understand it. The AIs would would level at level to them and try to try to explain it in a different way. Um, the idea of productive struggle, uh, the the the the idea that they that they felt safe to talk to an AI, whereas these are kids who are they're not gonna raise their hand in class, they were not gonna be active participants in class. But in our environments, they felt safe to. And not only that, but they they they felt compelled to come back. It wasn't a one-and-done thing. They came back to the modules. They wouldn't need to study for a test or they need to work through something that they felt they were weak at. They would go and they would work with the AIs. Now, combine that with how our teacher approached it. So she said uh she would sit back, she would spent the first half of the class period doing her mini lesson, and then she would assign the students into Mega Minds for the second half. And then she would open her laptop, and then on her dashboard, you can just see all the c all the students working away and all the data is coming back to her in real time. So she can see the second uh uh and um one of the AI AI's reports to her, okay, you know, Jimmy is having problems with with this word problem over here. She would walk over and go, hey, I see you're having a problem with with this word. But can I help you help you uh understand the concept? Should she be able to fill that learning gap immediately? Or if she saw like a group of her students having the same problem, she would prepare a new mini lesson for the next day that helped fill that gap. So that I don't know that that that was that's that's been possible before. You know, they otherwise she would have to wait two weeks for the quiz and then have to, you know, spend a day going through the the results of the quiz to figure out to arrive to her own uh uh conclusions on on who needs help with what. Now it's served to her immediately. And it's not just the conversation that it's taking the data from, it's all of the activity that the student's doing in that 3D room. Like I said, it's it's it's it's that that wealth of activity that it is just AI is the only thing that could sort through all of that to generate those insights that are so powerful for her. So, in her own words, it made her a more productive, a more effective, and a more efficient teacher. Go ahead, Austin.

Austin Levinson: 24:48

And that loop between teaching assessment and then that formative assessment guiding your instruction, that loop is as tight as possible because the interactions provide immediate information that the teachers can act upon within minutes. And in a typical classroom, how could a teacher observe what 30 students are doing? Are they working through the slide deck or are they looking at something else? Are they actually answering the questions? It's impossible to do that. Yet with Mega Minds, and we have a feature now where we're asking reflection and metacognition questions. One teacher said that by getting a metacognition, really there's this one AI that's asking metacognition questions about, you know, what are you still struggling with? What were your biggest gains in this module? What are some ways this connects to the real world? By by getting the AI to ask those questions and the teachers get them on the dashboard, it's like the teacher interviewing every student at the end of class every day, which is obviously impossible. It's no longer impossible. We've made the impossible about giving feedback to the students and the teacher possible through the use of these AI-powered immersive spaces.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 26:26

Yeah. And I think that's very important because, like you said, that that to me is worth gold in itself. I mean, I remember my days in the classroom and of course trying everything, going from paper exit tickets just to see, you know, just little checks for understanding in that sense. And then all of a sudden, that stack just becomes very ominous on my desk. And then saying, okay, now I'm going to do it digitally. Well, then now I had a digital stack of Google form responses and things of that sort that I still have to filter through and so on. And of course, you do that. But the fact that I love that while they are doing their lesson, you get to see, as a teacher from the dashboard, see those specific areas that the teacher, that the students, I should say, might be struggling with. And I love what Eric said immediately. I get a cue, I can go to that student, and then I can either fix that misconception that they might be having, or like you said too as well, seeing a group of students that might be having the similar issue. And then I can say as a teacher, okay, maybe I need to explain it differently and just have that reteach moment right then and there, but it's all with intention. And one thing that I love that Eric said too is like I remember having to sift through all those papers or giving a quiz and then having to grade and then you know, say, you know what, I'll grade this tomorrow. By the time I finish that quiz, it's already two days after. And my students don't get that feedback uh that they need to get immediately. And now through Mega Minds, that makes things so much easier through that dashboard, which I think, like I said, it's definitely worth its weight in gold, and it's something that's wonderful there. Uh, the next thing though that I do want to talk about, because I know that this was something that is of interest to me, and I've been kind of writing this CTE train. Uh, the fact that now you are including CTE lessons within Mega Mines, I think is fantastic. And one of the things that we often hear, or that I would often hear, not only from my district, but other colleagues that work at other districts, is obviously it's always, man, CTE is so expensive. You've got to buy these materials, you've got to buy these welders, you've got to buy, you know, whatever it is that you're doing for wood shop, for, you know, for nursing and things of that sort. So, what might be some creative ways that we can save some money with that? Well, having an immersive experience. So, I want to ask you, you know, since CTE really lends itself to immersive experiences, I want to ask you as far as your simulations that you offer, what kind of feedback or results have you seen from your students? And this time I'll start with Eric. Yeah.

Eric Tao: 29:08

Uh, first off, what I you might think, okay, they're, you know, they've had success in math, CTE. What is the connection between between math and CTE? Well, the connection is the the value of safe spaces for practice, uh, low-stake space for practice. That's that's the through line. That's the value proposition that we give to students. It applies whether you're learning math, it applies whether you're learning languages, it applies whether you're learning CTE, going on a job interview, practicing. You know, we have a job center where students can practice six different, six or seven different job interviews with different roles in different fields. You want to learn the trades, you can go talk to the foreman, you want to learn to be an educator, go talk to the principal, you want to learn to be uh IT guy, go talk to, go talk to the programmer. And you practice and you learn about the trade and you learn about what is needed uh in that specific uh uh area by talking to the AIs. And and again, you're you're you're you're practicing this in a low-stakes way before you have to go out and do it for real. So that's that's that's the key value proposition I think that applies to whether you're doing CTE, whether you're doing uh math. Now, as far as like saving, saving money, like like you mentioned. So we have simulations that take place in a clothing store where you know you're you're you're you're practicing the uh a retail role, and your job is to learn how to talk to an angry customer. So you're learning soft skills, you know, in that way. You're learning how to de-escalate. Uh we have uh we have a coffee shop, uh, we have a hospital floor, we have, you know, uh a construction site. We have areas where we can put students into simulations that where I don't, again, I don't know where they would get that ability to have that experience, to be a nurse in a hospital doing triage with a bunch of patients. How is that possible? You know, with um, you know, um, but that's something that that's an experience that we can give students. Uh and you know, and and for those, again, it's about it's about teaching the soft skills, it's about developing bedside manner, uh, being able to prioritize uh, you know, uh what's uh what what who is the sickest patient to be able to go back and report to the MD. So I think that that is the ability to give um you know work-based experiences through simulation uh in this manner is is is is rather unique. And and you're right. I think it it I it it it can can offer a lot of cost savings in a lot of areas for CTE programs.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 31:33

Excellent. Well, I know that we do have a demo. I don't know, Eric, if you want to pull that up, but Austin, is there anything that you'd like to add?

Austin Levinson: 31:40

No, I was just gonna say that if I as a listener, I'd be thinking, okay, this all sounds interesting. What is this about? So I think it would be a great opportunity to take a look. So that is a perfect segue, Alfonso.

Eric Tao: 31:51

Yeah, I know. Perfect. Um, first, I guess here is are you guys able to see uh see the screen? Yes. Um, so what what what you're looking at here is our our our our our stack of uh uh modules and CT and all all of the different pathways uh that we're that we're able to hit uh with these with these simulations. And I'll jump into uh what I'll show you that triage uh one that I was just talking about. So this is the hospital floor. Um every one of our modules kind of opens here with a mission brief or a mission overview. Here it sets up that you know you're you're a head nurse, there are four patients waiting for you. You have to talk to the patients and assess their situations and and decide on an order of treatment before reporting uh back to the physician. Uh and here's your your little shift briefing where you learn about the symptoms that each patient is having. And then you go in and you go and actually talk to uh talk to the patients.

Patient Jenny: 32:51

Uh hey, can someone help me? I don't feel right. My chest is it's really tight, like someone's sitting on me. I'm sweating a lot. And my arms feel weird.

Eric Tao: 33:04

Jenny, are you okay? When when did you start feeling these symptoms?

Patient Jenny: 33:07

About 20 minutes. Yeah. Twenty minutes ago. And it's getting worse.

Eric Tao: 33:12

What do you do you think it's something you ate, potentially?

Patient Jenny: 33:15

I I don't know. I think it's more serious. My chest it's it's tight. And can you help me?

Eric Tao: 33:22

Yes, absolutely. Just hang tight, okay? We'll be well, I'll I'll go grab the doctor, just sit tight, okay? We'll be with you in a moment.

Austin Levinson: 33:29

What's happening is, I mean, the opportunity to actually practice. Now, when a st let's say a 10th grader, 15, 16 years old, goes through this, they might have no idea how to do this. And it might take two or three tries. They have the opportunity to go back and revisit it because they might not hit it the first time. Now, the the critical thinking involved after they speak with after the student speaks with all four patients, they have to now think about how they're going to prioritize. They're going to talk to the doctor about that. So the experiential learning is so potent here that they're really going to give an opportunity to go through that process as if they were a head nurse, as if they were working with that doctor. And that you just you're just not going to get there with a video, with slide decks, with some of the other types of things. Now, in a work-based learning experience, you could certainly see what goes on in the hospital, but to get into that thinking process, it's a perfect complement for some of those hands-on and on site location experiences, uh, where they get a chance to go through some of that thinking, the soft skills, the bedside manner, that empathy piece is a lot, a lot here that's really beneficial for the student in terms of life skills.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 35:24

Now, for our audience members that are listening to the show, guys, I mean, you're missing out. I mean, this is a great simulation that we're seeing here through Mega Minds. And I mean, if you get to catch this on video, please do so. But I mean, you're actually in a hospital, you got to see a gurney, there was a patient, you're speaking and interacting with the patient. And then of course, now you have to go to a desk where it'll ask you once you speak, like Austin said, once you speak to those four patients, learning how to prioritize. And the first thing that I thought of is many of the CTE programs that do offer, you know, nursing and things of that sort. Really, it's uh I understand that they'll do the hands-on as far as you know, putting in an IV or maybe learning how to draw blood, but they really, you know, can't talk to a mannequin and the mannequin's gonna reply to them, you know, saying how they feel. Maybe they can role-play amongst students, but then sometimes there isn't that level of seriousness because it's, hey, you're there with your friend, your peer, and you know, you'll go through the motions, but to be able to see what I saw there and the patient really also uh going. I mean, you can literally hear the breathing and the way that they're answering, that really takes that learning to another level. Where now, like you mentioned, the student has to have a heightened sense of alertness and remember what they learn, have those critical thinking skills, have those soft skills, like you mentioned, communication-wise as well. And then, like you said, the ability to go back and say, okay, which of these uh cases is gonna be my priority? And that was just in this short period of time. And that and I'm just blown away by this. This is fantastic, Eric.

Eric Tao: 37:09

I think the thing to think also consider is role-playing is not scalable. You know, you have to have, if you're the teacher, you have to do a role play with 30 students. Oh, okay. That's gonna take more that more than a single class period. You know, our our first one of our first uh customers was District 75 in in New York City, and that was the thing that they mentioned was that, you know, before before us, they had to they would have to role play with each every single one of their students. Uh, that's just not a scalable, not only is it not, you know, very realistic uh to the student, but it's just not a scalable experience. How many, how many, how many students can you get through in a class period? But here you could have all of the students just uh you know uh uh up and running immediately and and uh into these simulations.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 37:50

Uh and and the other thing, like you mentioned too, through the teacher dashboard, the teacher is able to see, you know, where the student is at and maybe those scenarios where they may be struggling. And again, they're working towards that, the communication skills, maybe using the proper vocabulary for that particular symptom or for that particular procedure, as you know. And I mean, I I can only guess that when you are in there in real life under all that pressure, I mean, you've got so many things uh that you're thinking about, but this will give that student that heightened sense of the reality of what it would be like to be tending to a patient and then obviously trying to remember at the same time all the vocabulary, the procedures, and so on. So I think that this really brings that learning to life in that wonderful immersive um space that again to me and for my the listeners, I mean, just in that short period of time, this you can actually see how powerful this can be for your students. Austin, anything you'd like to add to this?

Austin Levinson: 38:56

Well, I love what you said about the heightened sense. I mean, that's getting into the science of learning. And and for those of us who have spent time with the attention piece and with really getting that engagement piece in, that they have some sense of urgency that there's something real happening, that there's information they need to collect. I mean, if it there's just no substitute for that. There's there's to get to that level of the student feels like they have to be serious about this because this is this is that kind of a situation. If it was in an agricultural um cluster and they're thinking about based upon the weather conditions and what happened last year, what they're gonna what they're gonna plant this year and why, and they're gonna have a chance to speak with an agronomer or whoever it may be, those different roles. It's just uh there's that sense of um uh of I mean the simulation, mimicking reality, and thinking about what the people in those professions are really gonna need to think about in terms of that critical thinking. There's a kind of a mix between critical thinking and empathy that that is very powerful for the students and it really ties directly to what's going to make them excited about being in the space and revisit the space.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 40:06

Excellent. That's wonderful. I I'm gonna kind of turn to, or this is a nice segue, because a lot of people talk about AI literacy, and I and I just really had to stop and pause a little bit on that because I was I just had an episode that we recorded and I I felt, and we were talking about how everybody talks about AI literacy and they mention it. There's so many posts about it, but it's just one of those phrases that I hear and I'm like, which definition is gonna come up next? Which definition? Because everybody has a different way of learning or thinking that AI literacy should be learned. But I want to ask you because I know that through Mega Minds, you do offer a way to teach AI literacy, but in 3D per se, in an immersive way, rather than just getting the natural overview or normal overview of slides or a video. So tell me a little bit about that. Um, Eric, we'll start with you. Um, you know, where did that idea come from and what can students actually do and see to be engaged and acting. actually learn AI literacy in a hands-on way per se.

Eric Tao: 41:19

Yeah, absolutely. I guess first, so we can talk about um as as a concept and and you know how how how how how districts are going about adopting it. And, you know, AI literacy is is is is going to be table stakes to get a job. You know, uh kids today in in five years, by the time they're graduating in the 30s, we don't even know what the job market's going to look like. But what we do know is that the majority of the tasks are going to be informed by AI and you're going to need to know how to work with AI. And you're going to need to know what AI is good at and what it's not good at. One of the ways that our our uh and I can I can present I can uh screen share it why not um one of the ways that we do it uh uh that the 3D environment allows for is again to put the students into the these 10 so this is uh a virtual simulation on AI ethics okay so uh in this module you learn about why ethics matter you learn about you know uh the different you know here you have exercises where you identify what is AI what is what is generated but I think is what is really interesting here is when we talk about bias um we actually put you into a first person situation where you where the student experiences being the victim of bias. So I'll just show you uh what it looks like right here. This is this is a secure basically a school security uh officer uh um who has uh flagged the student for uh uh inappropriate behavior notice your behavior has been flagged as a potential disruption risk an automated report has been submitted to the school administration possible consequences include detention suspension or expulsion uh why did you flag me your behavior matches 82% of prior disruption patterns fast hallway transitions unusual grouping behavior limited eye contact with staff this is consistent with students who later caused class disruption I mean you're you're pretty much describing every student in every single hallway what how how what kind of data is this and and how why are you using it to flag me? My training set includes 10 years of incident data collected from hallway cameras attendance records classroom seating charts and teacher behavior reports includes location tracking clothing color patterns audio tone and color patterns I don't think this is fair so then the student goes through your behavior and then has the reflection here what was Obi Wan's uh judgment limit fair why or why not? Uh do you think that the AI used correct data in its reasoning explain your reasoning so uh you know it's it's really we're able to put the students into the shoes um you know uh of someone and give them an experience of AI bias.

Austin Levinson: 44:10

I'm gonna ask you in the audience how is that going to lead to deep understanding of the concept of AI bias? How is it going to lead to transfer compared with um the teacher talking about it compared with watching a video about what AI bias is what's going to be the difference there in terms of the learning outcomes for the student no this is fantastic.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 44:33

Like right now the first thing I was thinking of is like well where are you getting your data from and yeah I was thinking you know just the the comments that it was making it really got you to think like hey what's going on here and again that critical thinking and understanding now what bias is maybe students didn't quite understand what bias is or maybe like you mentioned the video or the slide you know was just very brief about what bias is and gives one single example but here hearing a conversation and now all of a sudden you get to interact like uh for our folks that are listening to this you got to hear that interaction that Eric uh had with uh OBS one officer for those of you that are listening um you know the video uh the as it was speaking I even I felt like I was getting singled out I was like what are you talking about like you know everybody dresses like this or you can't just because I you know my eyes or the way that the my limited eye uh eye contact with teachers now you're assuming that I'm gonna be a risk and it really I I'm gonna say that it really got me like hyped up where I wanted to answer the question like what are you like what part of this is biased and it it really it helps you internalize this you're living it you're seeing an example and that really takes the learning Austin like you said to a whole new level and I think that that's something that is fantastic that you guys are doing.

Austin Levinson: 45:55

Imagine a Socratic discussion that stems from this where students had a chance to get into some of the different roles if they were the the principal or the teacher how might they respond if it was based upon flawed data and get into different perspectives some of the questions that can come up for the students I think this is unbelievable thought or for discussion that would be a rich discussion that really will will bring the students in. I think that this is I mean again I keep on going back to it but the students are going to be interested in engaging in this way. And again what what we're doing in the classroom some of the things engage some of them don't we know that but this one I really think is going to hit the students in the right space that they're gonna be excited they're gonna want to be engaging in mega minds rooms again and again and we know from brain-based learning and brain-based teaching if they want to be there they're gonna get a lot more out of it.

Eric Tao: 46:46

Yeah here's I just wanted to show this quick example there's another uh uh way that we tackle learning through immersion and this is this is through also through empathy so to the right here we have an it it you get to talk to an AI who's been unfairly impacted by AI when her school used it to decide who got into a special program and you get to hear her story and ask her questions about it.

Jordan: 47:06

So let's try it Hey I'm Jordan I can tell you what happened to me if you're curious. It's kind of a weird story. What would you like to know?

Eric Tao: 47:15

Uh what happened to you?

Jordan: 47:16

Well I applied to this prestigious school leadership program had strong grades leadership experience and was really involved in my community but I got denied and later found out the AI system seemed to favor applicants from wealthier schools in certain neighborhoods it felt really confusing and disappointing like I was invisible. How does that sound to you oh man that have you that doesn't sound fair at all. I I feel so bad for you. Yeah it was definitely tough. I felt overlooked and kind of invisible even though I met all the qualifications. What do you think about how the system made decisions in that way?

Eric Tao: 47:50

Well obviously I don't think it's fair I think they that they need to uh uh change how they go about uh picking uh picking the candidates I totally get that what changes do you think would make the process fair or how would you improve it?

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 48:05

Wow wow wow like uh you know for me right now just even as a teacher or being able to put this in front of my students just again going back to the type of conversations that you're having the student is having to think and they're learning and they're hearing like a real world scenario and really understanding it and again in a very personal way and maybe in a way that may they might have had that experience but they didn't know that they had that experience or maybe they didn't know that these experiences existed and now they get to talk and get that feedback I like that just this is fantastic to me. I'm just I'm blown away by this and again going back to like what um my uh sorry my friend Huston said is that going back to the classroom and and having those conversations go even deeper and wider really takes that learning to that whole other level. So this is something that is fantastic.

Austin Levinson: 49:05

I totally agree with you if you think about the student experience and if you think about the chance that they know somebody who is discriminated against in some way somebody who was in a store and the security guard was was after them a little bit more based upon certain appearance or certain clothing that they had uh I think that this touches upon a lot of real life experiences in ways that that tugs at the heartstrings. I mean this is getting into social emotional learning this is getting into empathy this is getting into uh you know about discrimination and just and racism and so many other aspects of society this could be connected to current events I mean imagine the students go through this and then you know what for homework find something in the news that connected with what Jordan was experiencing. Wow I could just imagine the explosive conversation would sue the next day it'll be really exciting. It'll be one of those moments where and all of us teachers have felt that you just feel the energy in the room right and that's where I think this can this can lead to that in exciting ways for for students to get a different way to learn and a deeper way to learn about bias, which is exciting and important.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 50:11

Yeah, most definitely and again for our listeners please make sure you do watch the video so you can see how Eric and and the team at Mega Minds have laid this out so you can see that immersive experience but just listening to it I hope that you get a sense of what the students will be able to interact with and how they'll be able to learn in and not just as a consumer but they're actively learning they're replying they're responding they're learning they're collaborating you know it it it really takes that to that next level so I'm really excited to see from 2023 to now Eric the work that you and Austin and the rest of the Mega Minds team have done to really take the platform to that next level and really you know getting future ready yourselves through Mega Mind to get our students future ready. You know I know that that phrase gets thrown around a lot but I I think that this is something that is fantastic and much needed now within our education space and so I love this. As we get closer to wrapping up I did want to ask you um Eric I know that you had the opportunity to make it out to the White House earlier this year. So I want you to tell me a little bit about how that experience was because I know that I did see some other familiar faces also there within you know kind of our circle of of uh colleagues and peers and so on. But I want to know if your experience what was it how was or uh how was your experience and what was the message for our education system as far as AI generative AI within our schools?

Eric Tao: 51:53

Yeah well I think uh first of all we were we were invited out to the White House uh for the Presidential AI challenge announcement and we our uh Mega Minds is a signatory company to the AI task force so we you know we have offered up uh the AI ethics module that you saw as and more we have a whole six module bundle uh that covers all the different aspects uh uh of uh AI literacy uh we've offered that that up for free for every single school and district uh uh in America uh to use um not only to participate in things like the Presidential AI Challenge but because we think it's a very important uh uh skill for uh uh for for students for students to to to to learn and you know as I mentioned earlier it's it's AI literacy is going to be table stakes right to get a job uh when by the time these kids uh graduate uh so being there uh you it was you know no matter what you think of the the current administration I believe what they're doing with the this challenge and with this with their efforts to promote AI literacy uh in K-12, there's only positives there. And I think you know the fact that uh they're taking a proactive stance is going to get a lot of districts thinking differently and maybe perhaps acting on it um you know where they might be you know more hesitant otherwise um you know we'll see what the net result is uh but I think it's a positive a net positive thing for sure.

Austin Levinson: 53:15

And it's it's not it's not easy necessarily as a teacher I mean I've delved pretty deeply into AI and I know you know Alphonse you have as well and and we've got some some ways pathways and some um specific channels that we can think of to to teach it but for a lot of either schools or or teachers who are not quite sure of how to approach it the Mega Minds AI literacy bundle is just a great turnkey solution. We're offering a really easy path to to learn about some of the basics to learn about the ethical unbiased issues to learn about some of the careers and then to eventually develop a solution to a real world problem. So it wraps in uh in a capstone project as a PBL and we've offered that up as a way for teachers just to be able to plug and play with it. We're also partnering with code.org on their Hour of AI next week and we're very proud to be a partner of theirs and we're offering up the AI ethics module plus the rest of the bundle but the ethics module as a great way for the students to get some uh great exposure to that. So um you know the our goal here is to really be uh helping in terms of again we've said we talk about future ready but this has now become an essential skill we see it in so many different aspects of society in Shopify that the employees need to justify if they want to hire somebody their department that the AI can't do that job. We see just so many examples of it and so to be able to provide a turnkey solution the students are going to be excited about we're we're very proud to be able to offer that to students in the United States.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 54:45

Excellent that is fantastic and so just to clarify like so then anybody like not not just through this year but the the AI literacy bundle will be available to any educator um at no cost.

Eric Tao: 55:00

At no cost.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 55:00

They just come to our website go to megaminds.com uh fill out a Google form and we provision uh accounts for uh all however many teachers they want uh uh using uh using Z my gosh that is fantastic we'll make sure that we link that in the show notes too that way our listeners anybody like just from classroom teachers to district uh decision makers that listen to the show they'll be able to find that link and then go to go ahead and redirect them there to Mega Minds. That way they can fill that out for their district and all their campuses because I think that this is going to be something that is wonderful and it's a great way to learn like you said offer that turnkey solution and also a way that the teacher I feel would not feel overwhelmed that they're gonna have to be creating something or be presenting as they may not feel comfortable but now there's something that is there that is available that the students can just easily hop on and start having these conversations and start learning uh about AI literacy. And I think that this is fantastic. Thank you so much, Eric um Austin, thank you so much for being here today and just sharing the amazing work that you're doing through Mega Minds. I really appreciate it and we'll make sure we link your info and the in the show notes too as well. So anybody that is listening will make sure connect with you Eric and connect with you my friend all the way in Colombia Austin which is fantastic and I mean thank you so much.

Austin Levinson: 56:27

But uh it's our pleasure I mean just to to listen to the way that you can just have some insightful questions and comments about how we're going about it. It's just it's just incredible to see the way your brain works around looking at something and being able to analyze how this would really the different classrooms and different settings it's it's a pleasure to to speak with uh other educators like yourself.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 56:50

So excellent thank you appreciate it but hey we're not done yet as you know we always love to end the show with the last three questions now Austin you're already familiar with these questions I know you maybe people if you guys listen to episode 340 especially if you're Spanish speaking because the episode is in Spanish I know Austin answered some of those questions there. But again now you can probably do the same answers in English Austin for all our friends. Eric I know you're familiar with the format uh as far as these last three questions so let's go ahead and start with you Austin. We'll start first here so as we know every superhero has a weakness or a pain point.

Austin Levinson: 57:29

So for Superman kryptonite was his weakness so I want to ask you Austin in the current state of education what would you say is your current edu kryptonite me personally as a as uh as an educator I would say um I've been um I've been playing around with um I've been in AI circles I've actually got the last session tonight and struggling with developing my first AI agent and I think it's working through my frustration and and sticking with it that's been I think that's that's been my my I think my weakness lately it's uh I'm I'm not the most technical I'm I'm fairly technical but it's been it's been a big challenge and I've enjoyed it and I've been really trying to document the process of how does it feel to not be able to get to where I want. And so that's been something I've been trying to turn from a weakness into something I can showcase and highlight saying you know what I could be vulnerable. I can say I'm really not getting this to where I want it to be but it's definitely been a challenge.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 58:30

Oh I like that it's it's got productive struggle written all over it. After our episode about productive struggle talk about going through productive struggle myself but it's all part of that learning experience. And now once you kind of get over that hump it's like whoa like I got this we did it we came over it and now we continue to learn and move forward. So it's awesome.

Eric Tao: 58:49

All right Eric how about yourself what in the current state of education would you say is your current educryptonite my my personal educryptonite or or okay yeah your personal I think it's just um you know I think it's just uh for for myself I think it's just overcoming my fears you know and over you know trying trying trying to get a product out into the market is not is not easy.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 59:15

And you know it's it's uh it's it's it's a roller coaster every day you know certainly with you know imposter syndrome you know and and you know there's there's a lot of that uh involved so I think that's that's my kryptonite is just overcoming uh just just putting my head down and just trying to keep pushing forward um that's that's that's that's the way I deal with it at least there you go and you know what Eric I really applaud that answer I mean for somebody like you that has your background and then of course like you mentioned now building a platform and putting it out there just showing that vulnerability and for all our listeners I mean you're talking to a founder here and sometimes you know we see what's on LinkedIn of course we see the successes we see like hey the platform's doing great hey Eric was at the White House and so on but to hear somebody from with your background and doing what you're doing and still say that you are struggle with that imposter syndrome I think that's something that is very useful for not only myself but for our listeners too to say hey you know what it's like I'm not the only one that might be going through that and struggling and you know you just work through it and move forward. So thank you so much for showing that uh being a little vulnerable there too as well and Austin you too you know showing that vulnerability there you know creating your your uh agent and so on so it's fantastic hearing this from just amazing people that I know people see like that finished polished product there on LinkedIn or anywhere that you're posting. All right question number two Eric I'm gonna go ahead and start with you Eric if you could have a billboard right smack in the middle of New Jersey where everybody can see it what would your billboard have on it and why okay well obviously it would be about mega minds but the tagline would be make school cool that's that's that's that's it and it would be just mega mines make school cool.

Eric Tao: 1:01:04

Uh it's that I think it speaks to uh the engagement factor that Austin's been talking about this episode you know making making kids excited about learning again Again, you know, and and and that has a dramatic effect. Um, you know, I I will uh one thing I didn't mention, but the intervention study that that we were talking about earlier, that teacher noted the attendance improved throughout the semester. Her kids started coming uh because they were enjoying uh um learning. So that that's a making school cool is important.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 1:01:35

That's a win. I love it. I'll take it. That's a great billboard. All right, Austin, in Colombia, right smack in the middle of Colombia, where everybody that drives by or walks by can see what would your billboard say or have on it and why?

Austin Levinson: 1:01:49

Well, it would probably be a newfangled billboard with a new technology where paint would be actually flying out of the billboard, right? And it would say get messy and be willing to get messy and try something new and take a risk. And I think that normalizing messy and failure is a message that we just can't hear enough. So it would say get messy, and there'd be kids with paint everywhere and different things, and adults and a superintendent and different people all getting messy together. I love it.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 1:02:19

That is great, and because it is, I mean, it does get messy, but in the end, you know, you get to have fun and you learn from all that messiness too, as well. And it's all part of learning, and I love it. All right. Last question, Austin. I'll start off with you. If you could trade places with a single person for a day, who would that be and why?

Austin Levinson: 1:02:38

Single person for a day. I would say uh that I would hmm. Well, I'm I'm a I'm a big I'm a big foodie. Some of you might know me that I'm a very big foodie. I love to cook, I love going to to supermarkets and public markets. And uh I I love to trade places with Gordon Ramsey and have the opportunity to get into different kitchens and expose myself to different chefs and different people. So that would be that would be me. Uh just to learn and see through his eyes how he approaches different scenarios, how he combines ingredients in creative ways. That would be a wild and novel experience for me.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 1:03:19

Nice. Great choice. All right, Eric, how about yourself? If you can trade places with a person for a day, who would that be and why?

Eric Tao: 1:03:26

Okay, I'm gonna cheat a little bit and talk about uh an experiment that we're doing, running right now on our platform. So we are uh bringing deceased characters back to life with little a with their AI avatars. So we are doing experiments right now. We have a room where we've basically brought back to life impressionist painter uh uh I'm sorry, uh painters. Like you can talk to Salvador Dali, uh, you can talk to uh different folks, you you know, and so uh we're doing some experiments where you're able to have conversations with historical figures about how what they think about current day situations. So I think, you know, I I you know, and that got me thinking is you know, we're we're we're creating a um module for our Martin Luther King Day, uh, where you actually get to talk to Dr. King. And you know, it that just got me thinking about wow, what what you know what potential we have here to really, you know, uh to to talk about bringing learning to life. Um you know, to to really put put that uh so that's all coming. So look out for that in in in a couple of in a in a few weeks. But but um uh so it's not necessarily about trading places, but it's about bringing those people to uh to me.

Dr. Alfonso Mendoza: 1:04:42

Nice. Hey, I you know, I I didn't expect that twist on it, like you know, asking them about how you know they see the world today. I think that's something that is fantastic because usually it's like, okay, we bring them back, let's talk about impressionism, let's talk about this and so on. But I think that's something that's great, you know, part of learning. And again, like you mentioned, just being able to have a historical figure that you can engage with and have that those conversations. Who would have thought, you know, that this is where we would be? But obviously, you know, we keep moving forward and the technology is just getting better, and then we have some wonderful people such as yourselves, you know, both in the ed tech space and the education space that are just bringing that immersive immersiveness into the learning. And I think that's something that is great. And I look forward to seeing what Mega Minds brings in 2026 for the education space. So thank you both for being here and just sharing just this amazing platform, the amazing learning that we just got to see today and experience. So thank you, Eric, and thank you, Austin, for today. We really appreciate you. And for our audience members, thank you so much for being uh just amazing supporters of the show. Please make sure that you visit our website at myedtech.life where you can check out this amazing episode and the other 340 plus episodes that we have, where I promise you you'll find some little gems that you can sprinkle onto what you are already doing great. And again, a big shout out to our sponsors, Book Creator, Yellow Dig, uh, Eduaid, and Peelback Education. Thank you so much for believing in our mission. And until next time, my friends, don't forget, stay techy.