Sept. 28, 2025
Episode 338: Dr. Marc Isseks
Captivate Your Classroom with Dr. Marc Isseks In this episode of My EdTech Life, I sit down with Dr. Marc Isseks, author of Captivate, to explore how educators can break free from “cognitive entrenchment” and rediscover what it means to truly engage learners. Marc brings over 30 years of classroom, curriculum, and leadership experience, and his insights will challenge the way you think about teaching, technology, and student voice. We dig into why success can sometimes stop us from growing, h...
Captivate Your Classroom with Dr. Marc Isseks
In this episode of My EdTech Life, I sit down with Dr. Marc Isseks, author of Captivate, to explore how educators can break free from “cognitive entrenchment” and rediscover what it means to truly engage learners. Marc brings over 30 years of classroom, curriculum, and leadership experience, and his insights will challenge the way you think about teaching, technology, and student voice.
We dig into why success can sometimes stop us from growing, how teachers can overcome rigidity and the dreaded phrase “this is the way we’ve always done it,” and why technology should be treated as a microphone, not an encyclopedia. Marc shares stories that will resonate with every educator—from rethinking assessment to giving students choice and voice in their learning.
Whether you’re a classroom teacher, administrator, or EdTech leader, this conversation will spark reflection and give you fresh ideas to amplify student engagement and your own growth as an educator.
Timestamps
00:00 – Welcome to My EdTech Life + Sponsor shoutout
01:00 – Introducing Dr. Marc Isseks and his 31 years in education
04:00 – The story behind Captivate and why he wrote it
08:00 – Breaking cognitive entrenchment in schools
12:00 – Test #3 story: why success can stall innovation
16:00 – Technology shifts: from Tic-Tac-Toe to TikTok
21:00 – Engagement vs. learning: choosing the right apps
25:00 – Tech as a microphone, not an encyclopedia
30:00 – Process over product: lessons from Pixar
35:00 – The three new R’s: remixing, recording, researching
40:00 – Reframing screen time, dopamine, and classrooms
44:00 – Marc’s biggest takeaways for educators
47:00 – Rapid-fire closing questions
48:30 – How to connect with Marc + final thoughts
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00:00 - Welcome and Introduction
02:11 - Dr. Mark Iseks' Educational Journey
05:07 - Captivate: Breaking Cognitive Entrenchment
10:56 - Every Child Has the Teacher's Edition
17:44 - Engagement vs. Learning in Technology
24:38 - Process Over Product in Education
35:17 - The New Rs: Remixing, Recording, Researching
43:26 - Key Takeaways and Final Thoughts
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Hello everybody and welcome to another great episode of My EdTech Life.
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Thank you so much for joining us on this wonderful day.
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And wherever it is that you're joining us from around the world, thank you as always for all of your support.
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As always, we appreciate all the likes, the shares, the follows.
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And I definitely want to give a big shout out to our three sponsors.
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Thank you so much to Book Creator, Eduaid, and Yellowdig for believing in our mission of bringing amazing conversations and amazing guests so that our educators can continue to grow both professionally and personally.
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So thank you so much for your support.
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And if you're interested in sponsoring the show, please feel free to reach out at myedtech.live.
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You can go ahead and hit the contact us and we'll definitely get back to you.
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But I am excited about today.
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I have been following our guest for a while now on TikTok.
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And I will say that his content is very engaging.
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It resonates a lot with my experience.
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And as you all know, if you're uh fans of the show and been following the show, a lot of what we're going to be talking about is something that just kind of is a theme around our show, adaptability, overcoming obstacles, uh, you know, and things of that sort, and obviously engagement and engaging our students and just being able to continue to grow as educators.
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So I am excited to welcome today Dr.
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Mark Isics to the show.
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Dr.
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Issex, how are you doing today?
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I'm doing amazing.
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Thanks so much for having me on, and I'm really super excited for our conversation today.
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Excellent.
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Well, I'm excited about today's conversation.
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I know we talked a little bit pre-chat, and I I really, really truly am excited.
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And we're definitely going to be talking about your book.
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And I have a copy of that here, which is called Captivate.
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But before we get into this and into our questions, uh, Dr.
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Isix, if you can give us a little brief introduction and what your context is in the education space.
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So all our listeners who are getting to know you for the first time today can get to know you a little bit better and connect with you.
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Absolutely.
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Well, first, please call me Mark.
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Uh, and this is my 31st year in education, just starting out my 31st year.
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I come from a family of educators.
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I'm a third generation educator.
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My parents were both educators.
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My grandparents and my mom's side were educators.
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My wife is an educator.
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So there it's basically the family business.
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I didn't even know there was another profession, to be honest with you, uh, until maybe like a couple of months ago.
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I realized there was another way, another path out there.
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So um this has been kind of a calling for my whole life and uh in some ways an expectation.
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And uh I learned early on from my parents about the power of education to transform lives, and that's been my mission really for the last 31 years or 30 years and a month now, um, and will continue to be as long as I'm in this space and I'm really passionate about it.
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Uh I've served as a teacher, I've served as a curriculum coordinator, a school administrator, which is my current role.
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Um, but the thing I love most outside of just working with the kids each day is working with teachers and helping them, supporting them, and really, you know, trying to help them tap into their next the next best version of them because it excites them as professionals and it also makes them just that much more extraordinary with our kids.
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And so it's a it's a win-win.
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And um, that's really where my passion is uh, you know, in in this phase of my career.
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That is wonderful, and that's exciting.
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31 years.
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I have just started my 19th year, and like I mentioned to you, I mean, growing into different roles from classroom teacher to digital learning, now assessments and the learning continues, which is something that really falls in line with what we're gonna be talking about.
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But again, I definitely want you to tell our listeners a little bit more about your book because your book, as I was able to read through it and definitely make some notes.
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So for all our viewers that are gonna see this, you can see that I came prepared with some questions from the book because the book is great and I feel that it was it is a great asset to my just professional educator tool belt in a lot of ways, as far as the way that you line the book up, and essentially, too, also the importance of, like you mentioned, helping teachers create that next better version of themselves and helping them improvise, adapt, overcome.
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And just as you know, with learning changing so rapidly, also with the integration of educational technology and of course with AI and all of that in this space, this is something that is a wonderful, wonderful asset.
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So tell me the story first and foremost, as far as when the idea popped up about the book, and you know, just putting your thoughts on paper, what was the end goal with Captivate?
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Well, let me just start by saying thank you so much for all the kind words.
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I really appreciate everything that you just said about the book.
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And uh the the genesis of this book is really trying to encapsulate the last 30 years of my professional journey.
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Um, when I started out as a substitute teacher doing a long-term um leave replacement, I was absolutely atrocious.
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I was horrible.
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Uh, I mentioned a story in the book.
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My very first post-observation conference began with the line, what the F was that?
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Um, and they the observer didn't just say the letter F.
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So uh that's how my journey started.
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And it probably could have easily and maybe even should have ended right there and then, but thankfully it didn't.
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And I guess my observer saw saw maybe just like a little kernel of something that could be brought out in me in terms of talent and ability.
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Um and I spent the last 30 years since that moment, after I left that office, really on the journey, um, climbing that mountain.
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And so Captivate for me is really the book that I needed to read for me.
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Um, that was really the the the nexus there, uh, or to me, the the crux of it.
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And um, it really was about trying to give educators like hands-on practical application to how they can change their thinking.
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Um, there are other books out there, I'm sure, that give you maybe like more rubrics and more like, you know, worksheets and things of that nature.
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This is not that book.
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This book is the book where if you if you feel like you are in a place where you want to take that next step and you just need someone to kind of crack open a door in your mind and give you just that little nudge, um, this is the book for that.
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Um, and I wrote it that way because I I want to spark interest in the in the reader, in the educator, so they can pursue their own journey.
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I don't want to just give them a worksheet because they they'll use that worksheet, but then it's the end, then they need another worksheet for the next lesson.
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Um, it's really more of like a teacher person to fish kind of uh approach.
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And uh so I really wrote it for for the educator, uh for the educational leader, for the educ for the educational practitioner in the classroom each day, uh, really to just challenge you to break cognitive entrenchment because schools are absolutely grounded in cognitive entrenchment.
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We literally try to replicate next year to look exactly like this year, which looked exactly like last year, which look exactly like the year before that.
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We, if you hold up the calendar from this year and the calendar from last year, you really can't tell the difference.
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If you dropped all the calendars on the floor for the last 20 years, you probably wouldn't be able to pick one up and know what year it is.
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Um, the contract codifies entrenchment, the grading system cognif uh codifies entrenchment, everything that we do codifies entrenchment.
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And um, I really want to challenge that.
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One of the nicknames I gave myself kind of jokingly, but I'm trying to live up to it, is educational pyromaniac, someone who lights fires onto people who work and sets fire to systemic inventions that doesn't that do not.
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And um, so part of that systemic inventions that don't necessarily work, um, that's part of the cognitive entrenchment.
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And I just want to try to just wake people up a little bit just so they can reflect, because I do believe that there are, and we were talking about this in our pre-conversation, there are talented educators everywhere, everywhere.
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And not all of them are given the opportunity or the support to really tap into their greatness.
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And um, and our students don't get the best of those people when they don't have the opportunity to tap into that greatness and to take risks and to try things.
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So I wrote this book trying to inspire people to do exactly that.
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Excellent.
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And you know, in going through the book and reading, like I said, you did a phenomenal job.
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And so one thing that I do want to add and unpack a little bit is one thing that I did love about the book is like you said, it's not like here's a worksheet, here's a uh QR code where you can download this rubric and that rubric and this rubric and so on.
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But it was that personal touch of you sharing your story alongside research, also.
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So there's that research-based approach too, and tying that in because oftentimes you will get, you know, a plethora of books out there where it's just the author's experience, but that experience may not be the same for everybody.
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But I love the way that you work this in here with the end goal of you know teaching one to fish, like you said, and that and that to me, that picture, um, you know, captivate the hook.
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You're getting them hooked in into reading it and getting them hooked in to find that better version of you.
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So I want to start a little bit here.
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Uh, you know, I was I made a note here on page uh 45, and this really kind of stuck to me because as we were talking, as we go through education, you mentioned the calendars where everything stays the same.
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And as you know, a lot of times in education, the the words that I fear the most to hear is this is the way we've always done it.
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And as educators, like I told you in my personal story, like moving from one role to the next, it was knowing what would happen already beginning of the year, end of the year, fin uh um, you know, middle of the year and so on, but now with a new role, actually stretching that brain muscle, doing things different, finding new ways and innovative ways to approach and to continue to grow.
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So, one thing that you mentioned here is shedding that rigidity and shattering those illusions.
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Like many times what happens is I feel that as teachers, the more that we want to reinvent ourselves and maybe say this is the year, or we have somebody that comes in and does a wonderful PD, like I've seen you in your clips, we get that hope.
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You inspire us, you light that fire, like you mentioned.
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But then at the end, when the stress levels come down, and then when that door opens and all that administrative stuff comes in, it's we always revert back to our comfort zone and revert back to this is the way we've always done it.
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So tell me a little bit about that experience in your book and some ways that our educators can overcome that rigidity and falling back into the way things are always done.
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I br I truly believe that 90, I want to say 98%, maybe 99% of all educators out there really want to show up and do amazing work.
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I I struggle to say 100% of anybody, you're right, but the overwhelming majority of educators want to show up and do and do amazing work, make build great uh relationships with kids and be completely, absolutely effective and change their lives in the best way possible.
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However, when we have success, very often we stop looking for new ways of doing things.
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I tell a story in the book about what I call test number three.
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And it was based on a real situation that happened when my wife and I went to a parateacher conference for my daughter, our daughter, and she was uh taking chemistry, and the chemistry teacher who just could not have been more wonderful, more compassionate.
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If I had to have a lineup and pick somebody to be my child's teacher, I would have picked him 10 out of 10 times.
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He was a wonderful, wonderful person to about 20 years of educational experience.
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And he walked us through the grade book.
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Test one was really good, 91.
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Test two was the 88, test three is tomorrow.
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And here's the problem in my experience, the kids always bomb test three.
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So just be prepared.
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And I even like gave them a few extra easy questions at test one and two just to pad the average a little bit so test three doesn't like demolish them.
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And we nodded and we said, of course, we're gonna make sure she studies tonight and everything else.
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And uh by the way, she did fail the test miserably, as did everybody else in the class or most of the other kids.
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But when the conference was over, I I looked at my wife and I said and I said, Why does he keep giving giving test number three?
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If the kids keep failing, why keep giving that test that way?
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Why teach that unit that way and give it give that assessment at the end of that unit?
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And it's not because he doesn't want to do great things, because he does.
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He's a wonderful human being and a great educator, and he cares.
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What more can you ask?
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But he's stuck in a blind spot.
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He he has had success over and over again teaching chemistry over and over again.
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So he stops looking for new ways of doing things, more effective ways of doing things.
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Um, that's just something that happens to all of us.
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And in in my research for this book, I actually came across the reason why things like that happen.
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It's called the Einstein Fecht, which is based on some research that was done by uh a researcher named Abraham Luchens about 80, 90 years ago.
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And essentially, when people come up with uh and have success with solving a problem, like teaching chemistry is solving a problem, right?
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I have to figure out how to do it and get through the year, and he figured it out and he had all kinds of praise.
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He got tenure, he probably had very good end-of-year evaluations, and they gave him the assignment, the prep over and over again, which is which is an attaboy in education.
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So now when test three comes, he just gives it because it comes after test two and it comes before test four.
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And that it's just and those are the little things that very easily can be overlooked.
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And I want to try to challenge educators to reflect on our practice.
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So, do we if do we have our own version of test three in the things that we do?
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And if so, how do we tackle that?
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How do we change that?
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And this is for administrators, maybe even more so, because administrators very often are the reason why educators fall back into patterns because they are trying to please what they think the educator, uh the educational leader wants.
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And very often, if you're an instructional leader who is so bottomed down in the day-to-day operations of your school that you don't necessarily have the opportunities to grow and learn and go to conferences and read books and all these other things, which take a lot of time, um, then you could also get stuck in your thinking.
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But if you get stuck in your thinking at that level, then you're almost guaranteeing that everybody in your organization is going to get stuck in that cognitive trench with you.
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Um, and I just want to try to give people an opportunity to kind of reflect on that and see what they can do collectively, because I do believe that collectively educators are just like outstanding human beings and very, very capable of being even greater than they are.
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That's odd.
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Yeah, and that is a wonderful story that kind of goes back into what I want to ask now.
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And it kind of ties a little bit also to your story a little bit, because nowadays, I mean, as as the the teacher was saying, like, hey, here's test three, it's gonna get a little bit more difficult and so on.
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But as we know now, you know, technology continuously moves forward, and obviously with AI being introduced into our classrooms and so on.
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And even before that, I mean, just with the use of our cell phones and things of that sort in the classroom, uh, I one of the things that I loved here is when you talk about the story about the teacher edition.
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And one thing that I really liked here, like you wrote in the book, is you know, today, and maybe teachers don't realize this, but I if you don't mind, I want to read this from your book, which says today every child has the teacher's edition, except now it's super light and thoroughly all-encompassing, and educators can no longer barter knowledge for compliance because students already have access to that which they seek.
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To me, that just kind of hit me, and I was like, oh my goodness, you know, like you know, that was kind of very refreshing to hear, but it even also challenged me, and even reflecting back on my years in the classroom, you know, and trying to stay innovative and trying to, you know, use the technology and integrate that.
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And at some point in the very beginning, when I first started, it was like, well, I'm the teacher in the room, I'm the one that has the most knowledge.
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But slowly I started changing that, but it, you know, and allowing our students to continue to learn.
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But tell tell us a little bit about that.
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Umpack that for us a little bit because I think this is an important message that teachers need to hear nowadays.
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When I was in college, I worked for Blockbuster Video for a couple of years.
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It it paid for uh a few rounds at the local pub and a few other things along the way.
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And um, you know, and I made my uh I made my money rewinding the tapes that people were too lazy to uh to rewind.
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And a few years after I graduated, Blockbuster went out of business.
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They were at the top of the food chain for years and almost overnight went out of business.
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And it wasn't because they stopped working hard, and it wasn't because they didn't want to s succeed, and it wasn't because they didn't want to make money, and it wasn't because they didn't have all the latest videos.
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They stopped innovating.
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And the and the market changed, the customer changed.
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They didn't want to go to the video store, they wanted the video store to come to them.
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And try as they might, but you know, they're they were driven out of business.
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Now the problem with schools is that if we fail to keep up with the changing customer, we don't get driven out of business because of compulsory education laws.
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The students keep showing up because they have to.
00:18:39.529 --> 00:18:49.289
But it doesn't mean that the methods that we're using are relevant to what their needs are and their learning needs are in this given age and this given time.
00:18:49.289 --> 00:19:05.129
We have experienced, all of us, a seismic shift in how we consume information, how we share information, how we communicate, and honestly how we think and how our brains work and our patience and our attention and everything else.
00:19:05.129 --> 00:19:07.849
And it's not small, it's seismic.
00:19:07.849 --> 00:19:14.970
When I started teaching in 1995, my greatest competition was an unsanctioned game of tic-tac-toe.
00:19:14.970 --> 00:19:16.410
And today it's tick-tock.
00:19:16.410 --> 00:19:18.809
And that's not even close to the same thing.
00:19:18.809 --> 00:19:22.890
And we have to understand that, we have to realize that.
00:19:22.890 --> 00:19:28.089
Now, for the top students, the high flyers, we can go ahead and use any methods.
00:19:28.089 --> 00:19:32.490
We can use methods from 2025, 1925, or 1525.
00:19:32.490 --> 00:19:36.970
They're gonna be high flyers and they're gonna be with us the whole way because they just love learning.
00:19:36.970 --> 00:19:40.250
They love us, they love school, they love everything that we're doing.
00:19:40.250 --> 00:19:48.170
But there's a whole other 95% of our students that aren't necessarily feeling in that same way.
00:19:48.170 --> 00:19:53.049
But we still need to reach them and we still need to educate them because they need us.
00:19:53.049 --> 00:19:56.170
We don't want them to just rely on TikTok.
00:19:56.170 --> 00:20:02.809
That we don't want them to just rely on YouTube, and we don't want them to just rely on their for you page to get an education in this world.
00:20:02.809 --> 00:20:11.690
We want to be the people who inspire them and drive them to learn very critical uh skills, thinking, writing, and mathematics, and everything else.
00:20:11.690 --> 00:20:17.609
And um, so the only way in my mind that we can do this, because I've lived through this shift.
00:20:17.609 --> 00:20:21.369
I mean, really, we I my first classroom had zero computers.
00:20:21.369 --> 00:20:23.930
Today everybody has their a handheld computer.
00:20:23.930 --> 00:20:26.970
Um, it's it's it's a huge shift in everything.
00:20:26.970 --> 00:20:33.049
And I want us to win because it's critical, it's mission critical that we win as educators.
00:20:33.049 --> 00:20:50.410
Um, so that's really the the name of the game for me is like the the customer has changed, the customer's needs have changed, and therefore we have to really be mindful of trying to explore and experiment different ways to maintain engagement, maintain attention, capture attention.
00:20:50.410 --> 00:20:58.329
Um we used to live in a world where someone could step up to the front of the room and say, ladies and gentlemen, may I have your attention, please, and what would happen?
00:20:58.329 --> 00:21:00.009
The room would quiet.
00:21:00.009 --> 00:21:05.690
But today, you can get people's attention, but you have to go and take it.
00:21:05.690 --> 00:21:07.690
That's the only way.
00:21:07.690 --> 00:21:12.730
And the TikTok rule, which is three seconds, is basically proof positive of that.
00:21:12.730 --> 00:21:21.369
A creator, content creator, like you or I, who puts videos out on TikTok, we have anywhere in the neighborhood of like two to four seconds, somewhere around three seconds for like the sweet spot.
00:21:21.369 --> 00:21:24.569
And if we don't capture someone's attention in three seconds, they're gone.
00:21:24.569 --> 00:21:26.569
And they're never coming back.
00:21:26.569 --> 00:21:29.289
They're not scrolling backwards to see what they missed.
00:21:29.289 --> 00:21:30.410
They're moving on.
00:21:30.410 --> 00:21:38.170
In classrooms, we were we've been taught as educators that we have three minutes to get kids' attention in a traditional do now.
00:21:38.170 --> 00:21:41.369
And I'm just gonna call that, I'm calling BS on that.
00:21:41.369 --> 00:21:44.009
Just calling BS on that because it's not true anymore.
00:21:44.009 --> 00:21:46.730
Again, for the 5% of the kids, sure.
00:21:46.730 --> 00:21:50.490
But not for the not for the masses, in my opinion.
00:21:50.890 --> 00:22:21.450
Yeah, no, and good point on that, and which kind of leads me to my next question too, because I know there's a section in the book here where you even pose a question, and talking a little bit about engagement here is that nowadays with so many apps that are out there, and many educators go to conferences or they're on social media, they get so excited for the next big app, and this is the app that's gonna help me, this is the app that's gonna solve my problems, this is the app that is gonna do this, and so on and so forth, and then that's gonna engage the student even more and help them.
00:22:21.450 --> 00:22:26.009
And sometimes they just we have a tendency to bounce and bounce from app to app.
00:22:26.009 --> 00:22:39.049
So I want to ask you, because there was a section in the book here where you ask a question and say, you know, how as an educator should we look at the specific application and as far as what metrics are we looking at?
00:22:39.049 --> 00:22:41.129
Are we looking at just engagement?
00:22:41.129 --> 00:22:43.450
Because engagement doesn't always equal learning.
00:22:43.450 --> 00:23:01.129
You know, so uh can you, you know, based on your research and in your experience, can you tell us a little bit about what might be some suggestions that as teachers we should look into to make sure that we are picking an application that is going to be useful and engaging for our learner?
00:23:03.609 --> 00:23:06.970
Well, I really think that it comes down to approach.
00:23:06.970 --> 00:23:08.089
Our approach.
00:23:08.089 --> 00:23:13.369
I think if you have a great approach, then you could pick from any app and make any app work.
00:23:13.369 --> 00:23:18.170
I know their committee is trying to figure out do oh, should we have a Chromebook or should we have an iPad?
00:23:18.170 --> 00:23:21.049
Should we use school magic school or should we use ChatGPT?
00:23:21.049 --> 00:23:26.650
I and and you know, these are all debates, but at the end of the day, what's the educator's approach?
00:23:26.650 --> 00:23:38.970
And if you have the right approach to your instruction and you're emphasizing engagement and you're emphasizing capturing students' attention in the opening few seconds, minutes of the lesson, and then taking them on a journey.
00:23:38.970 --> 00:23:46.009
Um, and if you're addressing and approaching your instruction that way, then I think you could you could pretty much use any app that you want.
00:23:46.009 --> 00:23:54.490
Use the one that you're that gets you excited, use the one that really you think has the most promise that helps you address your learning goals.
00:23:54.490 --> 00:24:01.769
I don't believe in like picking an app and then trying to like let layer on all of your curriculum and all of your instructional methods onto the app.
00:24:01.769 --> 00:24:09.049
Like figure out what it is that you want to do and what you want to accomplish, and then find the app that you think will help you best accomplish that goal.
00:24:09.049 --> 00:24:16.809
And if you start thinking of apps that way, instead of, well, my district is making us use this, so I guess I have to just do everything on this.
00:24:16.809 --> 00:24:20.170
Well, maybe that's just not getting you where you want to be.
00:24:20.170 --> 00:24:23.849
And I know that again, that this is where I need admin to like really hear this.
00:24:23.849 --> 00:24:36.329
Like, you have to have some flexibility and adaptability and allow your teachers to have and support that growth and risk taking, um, and just not be necessarily dogmatic about any particular one way or one application.
00:24:36.329 --> 00:24:55.930
Um, I I I think that's the future because what I've seen, and I'm sure you've seen it too in your role, and especially in the in the ed tech, you know, part of your your district, is that when all this technology came in, we were using the sophisticated, most powerful tools ever held in human hands, and we were doing like what I call like transactions.
00:24:55.930 --> 00:25:00.410
Like, here's the worksheet from 2005, but now it's digitized.
00:25:00.410 --> 00:25:03.210
So I can airdrop it to you, it's magic, and that's wonderful.
00:25:03.210 --> 00:25:05.690
And we don't have to use photocopies, and that's great.
00:25:05.690 --> 00:25:10.329
There are benefits to that, but it's not maximizing the leverage of the tool.
00:25:10.329 --> 00:25:12.970
So it's not bad because I don't believe in like good or bad.
00:25:12.970 --> 00:25:15.450
Um, I just believe in degrees of effectiveness.
00:25:15.450 --> 00:25:19.690
So it's good, it works, but is there something better?
00:25:19.690 --> 00:25:24.009
Is there something more effective or efficient and um and more powerful?
00:25:24.009 --> 00:25:26.329
And that's what I call transformations.
00:25:26.329 --> 00:25:38.730
That's the difference when you're using the technology to allow students to push their thinking to demonstrate what they can produce, demonstrate their understanding of what they've learned using the tools.
00:25:38.730 --> 00:25:46.329
And that's why if you're an educator who's maybe a little bit long in a tooth, like myself, and you're a little bit afraid of some of the technology, that's okay.
00:25:46.329 --> 00:25:51.529
If your approach is right, the students know the technology, let them use it and wow you.
00:25:51.529 --> 00:25:53.529
You don't have to be the master of the technology.
00:25:53.529 --> 00:25:55.129
They could be the master of the technology.
00:25:55.129 --> 00:26:00.170
You're the master of instruction, you're the master of motivation, you're the master of inspiration.
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