Episode 338: Dr. Marc Isseks

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 0:10

Hello everybody and welcome to another great episode of My EdTech Life. Thank you so much for joining us on this wonderful day. And wherever it is that you're joining us from around the world, thank you as always for all of your support. As always, we appreciate all the likes, the shares, the follows. And I definitely want to give a big shout out to our three sponsors. Thank you so much to Book Creator, Eduaid, and Yellowdig for believing in our mission of bringing amazing conversations and amazing guests so that our educators can continue to grow both professionally and personally. So thank you so much for your support. And if you're interested in sponsoring the show, please feel free to reach out at myedtech.live. You can go ahead and hit the contact us and we'll definitely get back to you. But I am excited about today. I have been following our guest for a while now on TikTok. And I will say that his content is very engaging. It resonates a lot with my experience. And as you all know, if you're uh fans of the show and been following the show, a lot of what we're going to be talking about is something that just kind of is a theme around our show, adaptability, overcoming obstacles, uh, you know, and things of that sort, and obviously engagement and engaging our students and just being able to continue to grow as educators. So I am excited to welcome today Dr. Mark Isics to the show. Dr. Issex, how are you doing today?

Dr. Marc Isseks: 1:35

I'm doing amazing. Thanks so much for having me on, and I'm really super excited for our conversation today.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 1:41

Excellent. Well, I'm excited about today's conversation. I know we talked a little bit pre-chat, and I I really, really truly am excited. And we're definitely going to be talking about your book. And I have a copy of that here, which is called Captivate. But before we get into this and into our questions, uh, Dr. Isix, if you can give us a little brief introduction and what your context is in the education space. So all our listeners who are getting to know you for the first time today can get to know you a little bit better and connect with you.

Dr. Marc Isseks: 2:11

Absolutely. Well, first, please call me Mark. Uh, and this is my 31st year in education, just starting out my 31st year. I come from a family of educators. I'm a third generation educator. My parents were both educators. My grandparents and my mom's side were educators. My wife is an educator. So there it's basically the family business. I didn't even know there was another profession, to be honest with you, uh, until maybe like a couple of months ago. I realized there was another way, another path out there. So um this has been kind of a calling for my whole life and uh in some ways an expectation. And uh I learned early on from my parents about the power of education to transform lives, and that's been my mission really for the last 31 years or 30 years and a month now, um, and will continue to be as long as I'm in this space and I'm really passionate about it. Uh I've served as a teacher, I've served as a curriculum coordinator, a school administrator, which is my current role. Um, but the thing I love most outside of just working with the kids each day is working with teachers and helping them, supporting them, and really, you know, trying to help them tap into their next the next best version of them because it excites them as professionals and it also makes them just that much more extraordinary with our kids. And so it's a it's a win-win. And um, that's really where my passion is uh, you know, in in this phase of my career.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 3:37

That is wonderful, and that's exciting. 31 years. I have just started my 19th year, and like I mentioned to you, I mean, growing into different roles from classroom teacher to digital learning, now assessments and the learning continues, which is something that really falls in line with what we're gonna be talking about. But again, I definitely want you to tell our listeners a little bit more about your book because your book, as I was able to read through it and definitely make some notes. So for all our viewers that are gonna see this, you can see that I came prepared with some questions from the book because the book is great and I feel that it was it is a great asset to my just professional educator tool belt in a lot of ways, as far as the way that you line the book up, and essentially, too, also the importance of, like you mentioned, helping teachers create that next better version of themselves and helping them improvise, adapt, overcome. And just as you know, with learning changing so rapidly, also with the integration of educational technology and of course with AI and all of that in this space, this is something that is a wonderful, wonderful asset. So tell me the story first and foremost, as far as when the idea popped up about the book, and you know, just putting your thoughts on paper, what was the end goal with Captivate?

Dr. Marc Isseks: 5:07

Well, let me just start by saying thank you so much for all the kind words. I really appreciate everything that you just said about the book. And uh the the genesis of this book is really trying to encapsulate the last 30 years of my professional journey. Um, when I started out as a substitute teacher doing a long-term um leave replacement, I was absolutely atrocious. I was horrible. Uh, I mentioned a story in the book. My very first post-observation conference began with the line, what the F was that? Um, and they the observer didn't just say the letter F. So uh that's how my journey started. And it probably could have easily and maybe even should have ended right there and then, but thankfully it didn't. And I guess my observer saw saw maybe just like a little kernel of something that could be brought out in me in terms of talent and ability. Um and I spent the last 30 years since that moment, after I left that office, really on the journey, um, climbing that mountain. And so Captivate for me is really the book that I needed to read for me. Um, that was really the the the nexus there, uh, or to me, the the crux of it. And um, it really was about trying to give educators like hands-on practical application to how they can change their thinking. Um, there are other books out there, I'm sure, that give you maybe like more rubrics and more like, you know, worksheets and things of that nature. This is not that book. This book is the book where if you if you feel like you are in a place where you want to take that next step and you just need someone to kind of crack open a door in your mind and give you just that little nudge, um, this is the book for that. Um, and I wrote it that way because I I want to spark interest in the in the reader, in the educator, so they can pursue their own journey. I don't want to just give them a worksheet because they they'll use that worksheet, but then it's the end, then they need another worksheet for the next lesson. Um, it's really more of like a teacher person to fish kind of uh approach. And uh so I really wrote it for for the educator, uh for the educational leader, for the educ for the educational practitioner in the classroom each day, uh, really to just challenge you to break cognitive entrenchment because schools are absolutely grounded in cognitive entrenchment. We literally try to replicate next year to look exactly like this year, which looked exactly like last year, which look exactly like the year before that. We, if you hold up the calendar from this year and the calendar from last year, you really can't tell the difference. If you dropped all the calendars on the floor for the last 20 years, you probably wouldn't be able to pick one up and know what year it is. Um, the contract codifies entrenchment, the grading system cognif uh codifies entrenchment, everything that we do codifies entrenchment. And um, I really want to challenge that. One of the nicknames I gave myself kind of jokingly, but I'm trying to live up to it, is educational pyromaniac, someone who lights fires onto people who work and sets fire to systemic inventions that doesn't that do not. And um, so part of that systemic inventions that don't necessarily work, um, that's part of the cognitive entrenchment. And I just want to try to just wake people up a little bit just so they can reflect, because I do believe that there are, and we were talking about this in our pre-conversation, there are talented educators everywhere, everywhere. And not all of them are given the opportunity or the support to really tap into their greatness. And um, and our students don't get the best of those people when they don't have the opportunity to tap into that greatness and to take risks and to try things. So I wrote this book trying to inspire people to do exactly that.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 8:49

Excellent. And you know, in going through the book and reading, like I said, you did a phenomenal job. And so one thing that I do want to add and unpack a little bit is one thing that I did love about the book is like you said, it's not like here's a worksheet, here's a uh QR code where you can download this rubric and that rubric and this rubric and so on. But it was that personal touch of you sharing your story alongside research, also. So there's that research-based approach too, and tying that in because oftentimes you will get, you know, a plethora of books out there where it's just the author's experience, but that experience may not be the same for everybody. But I love the way that you work this in here with the end goal of you know teaching one to fish, like you said, and that and that to me, that picture, um, you know, captivate the hook. You're getting them hooked in into reading it and getting them hooked in to find that better version of you. So I want to start a little bit here. Uh, you know, I was I made a note here on page uh 45, and this really kind of stuck to me because as we were talking, as we go through education, you mentioned the calendars where everything stays the same. And as you know, a lot of times in education, the the words that I fear the most to hear is this is the way we've always done it. And as educators, like I told you in my personal story, like moving from one role to the next, it was knowing what would happen already beginning of the year, end of the year, fin uh um, you know, middle of the year and so on, but now with a new role, actually stretching that brain muscle, doing things different, finding new ways and innovative ways to approach and to continue to grow. So, one thing that you mentioned here is shedding that rigidity and shattering those illusions. Like many times what happens is I feel that as teachers, the more that we want to reinvent ourselves and maybe say this is the year, or we have somebody that comes in and does a wonderful PD, like I've seen you in your clips, we get that hope. You inspire us, you light that fire, like you mentioned. But then at the end, when the stress levels come down, and then when that door opens and all that administrative stuff comes in, it's we always revert back to our comfort zone and revert back to this is the way we've always done it. So tell me a little bit about that experience in your book and some ways that our educators can overcome that rigidity and falling back into the way things are always done.

Dr. Marc Isseks: 11:20

I br I truly believe that 90, I want to say 98%, maybe 99% of all educators out there really want to show up and do amazing work. I I struggle to say 100% of anybody, you're right, but the overwhelming majority of educators want to show up and do and do amazing work, make build great uh relationships with kids and be completely, absolutely effective and change their lives in the best way possible. However, when we have success, very often we stop looking for new ways of doing things. I tell a story in the book about what I call test number three. And it was based on a real situation that happened when my wife and I went to a parateacher conference for my daughter, our daughter, and she was uh taking chemistry, and the chemistry teacher who just could not have been more wonderful, more compassionate. If I had to have a lineup and pick somebody to be my child's teacher, I would have picked him 10 out of 10 times. He was a wonderful, wonderful person to about 20 years of educational experience. And he walked us through the grade book. Test one was really good, 91. Test two was the 88, test three is tomorrow. And here's the problem in my experience, the kids always bomb test three. So just be prepared. And I even like gave them a few extra easy questions at test one and two just to pad the average a little bit so test three doesn't like demolish them. And we nodded and we said, of course, we're gonna make sure she studies tonight and everything else. And uh by the way, she did fail the test miserably, as did everybody else in the class or most of the other kids. But when the conference was over, I I looked at my wife and I said and I said, Why does he keep giving giving test number three? If the kids keep failing, why keep giving that test that way? Why teach that unit that way and give it give that assessment at the end of that unit? And it's not because he doesn't want to do great things, because he does. He's a wonderful human being and a great educator, and he cares. What more can you ask? But he's stuck in a blind spot. He he has had success over and over again teaching chemistry over and over again. So he stops looking for new ways of doing things, more effective ways of doing things. Um, that's just something that happens to all of us. And in in my research for this book, I actually came across the reason why things like that happen. It's called the Einstein Fecht, which is based on some research that was done by uh a researcher named Abraham Luchens about 80, 90 years ago. And essentially, when people come up with uh and have success with solving a problem, like teaching chemistry is solving a problem, right? I have to figure out how to do it and get through the year, and he figured it out and he had all kinds of praise. He got tenure, he probably had very good end-of-year evaluations, and they gave him the assignment, the prep over and over again, which is which is an attaboy in education. So now when test three comes, he just gives it because it comes after test two and it comes before test four. And that it's just and those are the little things that very easily can be overlooked. And I want to try to challenge educators to reflect on our practice. So, do we if do we have our own version of test three in the things that we do? And if so, how do we tackle that? How do we change that? And this is for administrators, maybe even more so, because administrators very often are the reason why educators fall back into patterns because they are trying to please what they think the educator, uh the educational leader wants. And very often, if you're an instructional leader who is so bottomed down in the day-to-day operations of your school that you don't necessarily have the opportunities to grow and learn and go to conferences and read books and all these other things, which take a lot of time, um, then you could also get stuck in your thinking. But if you get stuck in your thinking at that level, then you're almost guaranteeing that everybody in your organization is going to get stuck in that cognitive trench with you. Um, and I just want to try to give people an opportunity to kind of reflect on that and see what they can do collectively, because I do believe that collectively educators are just like outstanding human beings and very, very capable of being even greater than they are.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 15:19

That's odd. Yeah, and that is a wonderful story that kind of goes back into what I want to ask now. And it kind of ties a little bit also to your story a little bit, because nowadays, I mean, as as the the teacher was saying, like, hey, here's test three, it's gonna get a little bit more difficult and so on. But as we know now, you know, technology continuously moves forward, and obviously with AI being introduced into our classrooms and so on. And even before that, I mean, just with the use of our cell phones and things of that sort in the classroom, uh, I one of the things that I loved here is when you talk about the story about the teacher edition. And one thing that I really liked here, like you wrote in the book, is you know, today, and maybe teachers don't realize this, but I if you don't mind, I want to read this from your book, which says today every child has the teacher's edition, except now it's super light and thoroughly all-encompassing, and educators can no longer barter knowledge for compliance because students already have access to that which they seek. To me, that just kind of hit me, and I was like, oh my goodness, you know, like you know, that was kind of very refreshing to hear, but it even also challenged me, and even reflecting back on my years in the classroom, you know, and trying to stay innovative and trying to, you know, use the technology and integrate that. And at some point in the very beginning, when I first started, it was like, well, I'm the teacher in the room, I'm the one that has the most knowledge. But slowly I started changing that, but it, you know, and allowing our students to continue to learn. But tell tell us a little bit about that. Umpack that for us a little bit because I think this is an important message that teachers need to hear nowadays.

Dr. Marc Isseks: 17:47

When I was in college, I worked for Blockbuster Video for a couple of years. It it paid for uh a few rounds at the local pub and a few other things along the way. And um, you know, and I made my uh I made my money rewinding the tapes that people were too lazy to uh to rewind. And a few years after I graduated, Blockbuster went out of business. They were at the top of the food chain for years and almost overnight went out of business. And it wasn't because they stopped working hard, and it wasn't because they didn't want to s succeed, and it wasn't because they didn't want to make money, and it wasn't because they didn't have all the latest videos. They stopped innovating. And the and the market changed, the customer changed. They didn't want to go to the video store, they wanted the video store to come to them. And try as they might, but you know, they're they were driven out of business. Now the problem with schools is that if we fail to keep up with the changing customer, we don't get driven out of business because of compulsory education laws. The students keep showing up because they have to. But it doesn't mean that the methods that we're using are relevant to what their needs are and their learning needs are in this given age and this given time. We have experienced, all of us, a seismic shift in how we consume information, how we share information, how we communicate, and honestly how we think and how our brains work and our patience and our attention and everything else. And it's not small, it's seismic. When I started teaching in 1995, my greatest competition was an unsanctioned game of tic-tac-toe. And today it's tick-tock. And that's not even close to the same thing. And we have to understand that, we have to realize that. Now, for the top students, the high flyers, we can go ahead and use any methods. We can use methods from 2025, 1925, or 1525. They're gonna be high flyers and they're gonna be with us the whole way because they just love learning. They love us, they love school, they love everything that we're doing. But there's a whole other 95% of our students that aren't necessarily feeling in that same way. But we still need to reach them and we still need to educate them because they need us. We don't want them to just rely on TikTok. That we don't want them to just rely on YouTube, and we don't want them to just rely on their for you page to get an education in this world. We want to be the people who inspire them and drive them to learn very critical uh skills, thinking, writing, and mathematics, and everything else. And um, so the only way in my mind that we can do this, because I've lived through this shift. I mean, really, we I my first classroom had zero computers. Today everybody has their a handheld computer. Um, it's it's it's a huge shift in everything. And I want us to win because it's critical, it's mission critical that we win as educators. Um, so that's really the the name of the game for me is like the the customer has changed, the customer's needs have changed, and therefore we have to really be mindful of trying to explore and experiment different ways to maintain engagement, maintain attention, capture attention. Um we used to live in a world where someone could step up to the front of the room and say, ladies and gentlemen, may I have your attention, please, and what would happen? The room would quiet. But today, you can get people's attention, but you have to go and take it. That's the only way. And the TikTok rule, which is three seconds, is basically proof positive of that. A creator, content creator, like you or I, who puts videos out on TikTok, we have anywhere in the neighborhood of like two to four seconds, somewhere around three seconds for like the sweet spot. And if we don't capture someone's attention in three seconds, they're gone. And they're never coming back. They're not scrolling backwards to see what they missed. They're moving on. In classrooms, we were we've been taught as educators that we have three minutes to get kids' attention in a traditional do now. And I'm just gonna call that, I'm calling BS on that. Just calling BS on that because it's not true anymore. Again, for the 5% of the kids, sure. But not for the not for the masses, in my opinion.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 22:06

Yeah, no, and good point on that, and which kind of leads me to my next question too, because I know there's a section in the book here where you even pose a question, and talking a little bit about engagement here is that nowadays with so many apps that are out there, and many educators go to conferences or they're on social media, they get so excited for the next big app, and this is the app that's gonna help me, this is the app that's gonna solve my problems, this is the app that is gonna do this, and so on and so forth, and then that's gonna engage the student even more and help them. And sometimes they just we have a tendency to bounce and bounce from app to app. So I want to ask you, because there was a section in the book here where you ask a question and say, you know, how as an educator should we look at the specific application and as far as what metrics are we looking at? Are we looking at just engagement? Because engagement doesn't always equal learning. You know, so uh can you, you know, based on your research and in your experience, can you tell us a little bit about what might be some suggestions that as teachers we should look into to make sure that we are picking an application that is going to be useful and engaging for our learner?

Dr. Marc Isseks: 23:18

Well, I really think that it comes down to approach. Our approach. I think if you have a great approach, then you could pick from any app and make any app work. I know their committee is trying to figure out do oh, should we have a Chromebook or should we have an iPad? Should we use school magic school or should we use ChatGPT? I and and you know, these are all debates, but at the end of the day, what's the educator's approach? And if you have the right approach to your instruction and you're emphasizing engagement and you're emphasizing capturing students' attention in the opening few seconds, minutes of the lesson, and then taking them on a journey. Um, and if you're addressing and approaching your instruction that way, then I think you could you could pretty much use any app that you want. Use the one that you're that gets you excited, use the one that really you think has the most promise that helps you address your learning goals. I don't believe in like picking an app and then trying to like let layer on all of your curriculum and all of your instructional methods onto the app. Like figure out what it is that you want to do and what you want to accomplish, and then find the app that you think will help you best accomplish that goal. And if you start thinking of apps that way, instead of, well, my district is making us use this, so I guess I have to just do everything on this. Well, maybe that's just not getting you where you want to be. And I know that again, that this is where I need admin to like really hear this. Like, you have to have some flexibility and adaptability and allow your teachers to have and support that growth and risk taking, um, and just not be necessarily dogmatic about any particular one way or one application. Um, I I I think that's the future because what I've seen, and I'm sure you've seen it too in your role, and especially in the in the ed tech, you know, part of your your district, is that when all this technology came in, we were using the sophisticated, most powerful tools ever held in human hands, and we were doing like what I call like transactions. Like, here's the worksheet from 2005, but now it's digitized. So I can airdrop it to you, it's magic, and that's wonderful. And we don't have to use photocopies, and that's great. There are benefits to that, but it's not maximizing the leverage of the tool. So it's not bad because I don't believe in like good or bad. Um, I just believe in degrees of effectiveness. So it's good, it works, but is there something better? Is there something more effective or efficient and um and more powerful? And that's what I call transformations. That's the difference when you're using the technology to allow students to push their thinking to demonstrate what they can produce, demonstrate their understanding of what they've learned using the tools. And that's why if you're an educator who's maybe a little bit long in a tooth, like myself, and you're a little bit afraid of some of the technology, that's okay. If your approach is right, the students know the technology, let them use it and wow you. You don't have to be the master of the technology. They could be the master of the technology. You're the master of instruction, you're the master of motivation, you're the master of inspiration. Let that be your skill set, your tools, your tools, and let the students run crazy with the technology in the best way possible.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 26:22

Absolutely. Oh, I love everything that you said there because there's so much to unpack. And it kind of goes along the line with the next thing that I want to mention, and something that I know was very near and dear to me when I was in the classroom was always allowing students uh and amplifying their voice, allowing them to share their learning with me. And like you said, it was really, I was just the guide on the side. I was there to help troubleshoot in the sense of here's our lesson, I present the lesson, but now here's what you will be working on as a group or as an individual. And it was always, you know, if you can, I would give them a choice. If you want to use the Chromebook, you can. You have these choices. Presentation, you can narrate something, you can write an essay, you can do a graphic, whatever it is to just demonstrate your learning to me that you mastered that concept. And it was so great to have so many students just dive in into the tools, but really focusing on the learning because I was, like I mentioned, I was just there being that learning engineer and just helping them out. And which brings me to my next point here, which on page 83 that you wrote in big bold letters that I really love. It says tech is a microphone, not an encyclopedia. And this is something that kind of goes in line with what I always love to share with teachers is allowing for discourse in the classroom and allowing the students to be able to podcast or share a video of their learning or explaining the learning to you, explaining a concept to you, doing those things. But I must definitely read this first line because it was very impactful, too, as well. Like I said, this book was definitely captivating in the sense that you had so many great things that just challenged me, or or things that I was just like, ooh, we definitely need to hear that out loud. And this was one of them where it says, it is a misconception that young people are zombified by their phones. In actuality, that is often when when they feel most connected and alive. And to me, I was just like, you know, being able to use an instrument that they use continually where they themselves go look for engagement to engage within the learning as well. And that's why I was a big fan of podcasting in the classroom, video in the classroom to allow the students to share their learning because for me it was process over product. You know, I man, many times we focus on the product so much, and I know you do mention that in the book, so I definitely want you to share your insights on that as well.

Dr. Marc Isseks: 28:56

One of my favorite quotes of all time is by Ed Catmull, and he was the co-founder of Pixar, arguably one of the most successful film companies in the world, storytelling, some of the greatest storytellers in the entire world. And he said, early on, all of our movies suck, and we have to go from suck to not suck. And that tells you everything. It's all about process, it's all about process. If they judged the the product of those early drafts of those or the early editions of those movies, they would they would cut bait, but that's not their mindset. Their mindset is, yeah, this is not really particularly good right now. How do we make it great? How do we make it great? And everybody's kind of working in that direction. And I want schools to have the same mindset. There's sort of this finality or fatality when you get observed. It's like, this is it. This is like my whole year is going to be judged on this 40-minute or 45-minute period of time. And that's a completely unfair and unrealistic, you know, tool to use and a system to use. It has to be an ongoing conversation. It's about growth, it's about the climb. I hate that you have quote Miley Miley Cyrus here, but like that's it's true. Um it's the journey that we're all on, but we all have to be on it. And if the administrator comes in as holier than thou, then it it immediately puts everybody on the defensive because you have to like satisfy them or else. And and I just I have found so much more success working with educators than not having that approach. As a matter of fact, one of the things that I do, and admin, please feel free to steal this, is I I do what's called a blank page exercise where I invite an educator into work with me before. Anything like just literally start with a blank page and sit down and have a conversation. Like, okay, what are you thinking about teaching? How can I help you and support you and give you kind of push you to make this as engaging as we could possibly make it together? And I do that because I want to demonstrate humility, because I want to, I want the ed the educator to see how difficult it is for me. And this is my my 31st year. And I'm pretty good at this stuff too, if I may say. Like, and I still the first couple of versions are terrible. And we work past it until we find a thing that gets us both excited. And now ever now we're like like jazz musicians, like working off of one another. Um, and I I I would love people to have that approach because first of all, it's not uh it's not an observation. So I am not judging you in any way, and maybe you're judging me, but that's okay, I can handle it. Um and uh, but then we get to work together and then we get to have conversations. Then I have I see them in the hall. Hey, how did how did that go? Did the kids like this? And then they say, Oh, I changed this and it just went really, really well. And then they're empowered and now they feel great. And I feel great because I was able to even do just the smallest thing to kind of help them or point them in a particular direction. And so I want to see more kind of more kinds of conversations about that, like process over product, not just with our students, but working with our teachers, because we have to model that as educational leaders if we have any hope of that kind of trickling down and becoming the culture of a building.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 32:06

Oh, I love that. And that is so wonderful, especially that component that you mentioned is as an administrator, really also being that instructional leader and learning that humility and that you are putting yourself out there too and showing that vulnerability. But at the same time, you're working together in making that a lot better and making that process and thinking things through and iterating. And I think that is such a great example for you to have with that educator because then that goes and translates into the classroom where now students are also iterating together. They're having these discussions, they're trying to uh maximize the learning and through that processing that they do is something that's fantastic. And I think that for myself, and and I speak to another friend uh who is a content specialist, we feel like the classrooms are very quiet in the sense that there is not enough time to actually allow students processing time, number one, to make sure that if they have a question, that they can ask that question, the psychological safety aspect of it too, as well, where even oftentimes the the way that the teacher might approach the class, it doesn't necessarily feel like a very safe space where they may not want to ask a question and maybe they later on they'll ask a friend or something. But there's so many things that can change, but it all starts with these conversations, like you said, as an administrative uh and instructional leader, that gives the confidence to the teacher as well to be able to do these things in class. And I absolutely love that. But getting back to the I have tremendous empathy.

Dr. Marc Isseks: 33:43

I'm so sorry to interrupt, but I have tremendous I have tremendous empathy for educators and admin in these situations. The the curriculum sometimes is overwhelming. It's just too dense and we don't have enough time. I mean, I social studies was my subject, and every year there was more to teach because every year there was another year of history and it was important stuff and it was relevant stuff. Um, but we still had to go back and start from the same point historically, curriculum-wise, every year. So, like the it became a joke. Like when I first started teaching, um, this is wasn't even 9-11, right? We didn't we didn't have think about all the things that have happened the last quarter of a century. So now all that, all of those things are still taught, plus everything else, and it just keeps packing and packing and packing the curriculum more and more densely. It doesn't do anybody any favors. It doesn't help the kids, it doesn't help the teachers, and it just puts them in a very difficult situation where they feel like their back is up against the wall, which is very often why on the first day of school I'll walk the building many, many times as I do throughout the year, and I'll hear teachers, and again, empathy absolutely empathetic to this, like saying, All right, let's get going. We have a regence in June. I'm in New York State, we have a Regence in June, and we don't have any time to waste. I'm like, it's the first day of school. Yes. But but I understand, but I'm empathetic, but but that also doesn't work.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 35:00

Yeah, no, I agree with you. I remember when we first started school, I used to spend like the whole first week just getting to know my students. I didn't even start, and everybody else would start, but later on I would just bundle my standards because I would find lessons that would go together. So I was still able to keep up pace, but that whole first week and really getting to know them and building that community and building that rapport goes a long way. Of course. I want to touch on the next thing that also it just when I saw this, I was like, oh my gosh, this is so great! Is the new Rs. Okay, the three new Rs, as we're used to reading, writing, and arithmetic. But I love hearing that you talk about remixing, recording, and researching. Tell us a little bit about that. Where did that idea come from?

Dr. Marc Isseks: 36:47

I'm just trying to find ways of framing things in terms of relevance for kids. What's funny is students will be on their phones walking to school, and on those phones, they are making messages, creating content that has meaning to them. Now, I'm not saying it's it has like artistic value or as our society in any meaningful way, but to them it has meaning and it has value, and they're trying to say something. And how are they doing that? They're combining all these different multimodal forms. They're using sound, they're using memes, they're using images, they're using text, they're using video, they're using filters, and they are creating using all of these things, and they're streaming them together and making something that has some kind of message and sending it back and forth thousands of times a day. And then we they come into a classroom and we say, You're gonna love this, and then we hand them a book that is black and white, two-dimensional, and all it has is just one form of you know text, and that's it. And this is not to say that we shouldn't have students reading. We need students reading, but what I'm saying is let's meet them where they are. Where they are is in this multimodal space. So if we can introduce ideas using these multimodal concepts, we can generate interest that they'll want to read the thing that we want them to read. And we can help them learn and analyze and do all the different things that we want skills-wise when it comes to reading, because it's critical. So I'm just saying we have to start being being wiser and smarter in terms of how we leverage the technology to get the students to do the things that we all believe truly as educators are are very, very important. But if we skip that step and we just say, well, then just take out your Shakespeare because it's important, um, they they don't think it's important. Until we teach them why it's important. And that's why motivating and inspiring kids and giving them these ways of seeing things and challenging them. So now they'll be they'll want to explore, they'll want to take that journey with us. So the the re the remixing and recording and everything else, like that was just to think about like this is where students are on a daily basis. So why not, if we're gonna meet them where they are, meet them where they are great, not just where they are. So if you want them to demonstrate knowledge, you want them to demonstrate understanding, go where they're amazing, where they could produce something incredible. I had a student named Rao, uh, who was an eighth grader. I'm going back a ways, and he loved to make videos. And I was teaching eighth grade history, and he asked if he could do basically do his homework in video form. And at first I was like, well, you know, I probably should, but then I was like, What am I doing? And he would create the greatest short films for his homework and projects. And then I would ask him, you know, do me a favor, take this and like turn it into an essay for me. So at least I could say that I could see that you could you could convert and demonstrate your knowledge, at least in this written form, because you will have to write an essay at some point. But where his heart was and where his passion was and where his immense talent was was in this was in this form. And what happened was the kids look forward to seeing what Ralph produced for homework. And it just it just added to the it added a whole layer and a whole dimension to the richness of that class that year. Um so but you have to be able to find that, and you can't find that if you're just using conventional traditional methods.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 40:06

No, I love that. And you know, it kind of reminds me of a story during my doctoral coursework. Uh, one year we I had uh Dr. Jewitt, so she's listening. Big shout out to Dr. Jewitt. One year she decided to do a choice board. And, you know, being being in classrooms and doing ed tech, I mean, I knew what choice boards were. I used them in my classrooms and so on to give my students choice and voice and how they want to demonstrate their learning. And there was about 20 of us in the class who were doing a Zoom session. You should have seen the deer and headlights look that a lot of my classmates had because they're like, What do you mean a choice board? I was just like in the zone. I was like, Yes, all right. And then so she was like, Okay, this is you can do this. Here's a combination of contact hours. You can do this book study, you can watch this movie, you can do this or that. And I was the very first one. I was like, Hey, um, can I do a podcast? And sure enough, she's like, Well, yeah, why not? So every time that was me, like in all my doctoral classes, when there was some kind of project that could be done, I would say, can I just do a podcast and a video? Can I do a podcast and a video? And they were okay, but that's because that's just my favorite form of communicating and so on. So I can definitely relate to the student story that you're talking about. But even as adults, just giving us a choice, you know, and oftentimes, like you said, the curriculum tells you exactly what it is that you need to do, but just to kind of be able to tweak that, reframe things, remix things in a way that is relevant to the students and making those connections is something wonderful because that kind of takes us to the the next uh big thought that I I saw you right here is about obviously screen time and dopamine, but I mean being able to remix and reinvent lessons in a way that is engaging, that can also give those students those that little dopamine hit that they seek when they're looking at their screens. Because here the question was it says the screen promises dopamine, does the classroom and now you can even substitute in there and say, does your classroom do I do that? So I think that that was something that was very powerful there as far as how our activities that we create for our students are are in our engineering our lessons. How are we going about doing that? Are we just simply taking what's there in the platform and giving that worksheet and just submit it to me and that's it? Or are are there creative ways of being able to remix that so that our students get engaged? And I absolutely love that. I was just like, wow, that that took me back. And you know, uh this book really honestly is great because it it challenges you, but it like you mentioned, it opens up the your thinking to be able to reframe things in in a different way and in a not so uh I would say like outlandish way, but in little incremental things that can really like wow make you kind of think and just analyze, take in and say, Yeah, okay, I let me try that, and it makes you feel very comfortable. So absolutely love this. And uh Mark, thank you so much. This has been an awesome conversation. But before we go, I I just want to ask you, you know, bottom line, you know, for our listeners, your book, captivate. What is what are the two things that are your top two things that you would hope that a reader that takes your book can glean from that, from your writing?

Dr. Marc Isseks: 43:44

Wow, that is maybe the hardest question I've been thinking. Um I I think I would love for educators to walk away with a a a renewed sense of the importance of the first few seconds or minute of the lesson and not rely on sort of this three-minute convention. Um I think if we started there, a lot of things would start to fall into place if we really took those first few seconds and really focused on how am I going to to capture my students' attention. Because the name of the game is attention. Uh I'm a huge Gary V fan, and he's been talking about attention for a long, long time. Um and it just couldn't be any truer in this in the classroom, just like it is every place else on Earth. So um we have to be mindful of that. So that would be one takeaway is just understand the importance of the opening and really double down on on the opening. And um I guess the other thing would be just to be able to take risks and to to be able to push past your conventional perhaps thinking or or your traditional thinking or your cognitive entrenchment. That's your that's the way we've always done it, thinking, um, with the understanding that it's okay and it you didn't do anything wrong in the past. You've had success, but when you have success, sometimes you stop looking. And uh so just to be able to be reflective always and understand that there is no mountaintop when it comes to being a great educator. Uh it is just climbing the mountain, and we're all climbing together. Um only only people who believe in mythologies like tenure and mastery um are the ones who stop. The rest of us say, Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, but I haven't found it yet. Um, and they keep going. And uh, you know, that those are the folks that that I really you know love talking to and get inspired by.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 45:35

Love it. Well, thank you so much for sharing. And going back to what you were saying, you're the the very first thing, page 95. So for I'm just giving you a preview. Those of you that are gonna purchase the book, please make sure that you purchase. We will definitely link it in the bio and show notes, excuse me, in the show notes as well. That way you can check it out. But this is what he's talking about is saving, or it says save the best for first. So I think that that is something that is very unique, and I really like that approach. But again, I definitely recommend this book for all our listeners. Please make sure you get it. It will challenge you, but it'll also give you some great knowledge nuggets and ways to just kind of tweak your practice, things that you can sprinkle up, sprinkle to what you're already doing great to just make yourself that much better. So, Mark, thank you so much for being here with us. But before we wrap up, I always love to end the show with these last three questions. So hopefully you are ready to go. So, as we know, every superhero has a pain point or a weakness. So for Superman, kryptonite was his weakness. So I want to ask you right now, Mark, in the current state of education, what would you say is your current edu kryptonite?

Dr. Marc Isseks: 46:48

I think like meanness, meanness in the form of sometimes the way ideas or you know, new ideas are met um with with hostility, with meanness instead of kind of empathy and reflection. Um, that's definitely kryptonite for me because it just it harkens to, you know, a this is the way we've always done it reaction from me, and that that definitely sets me back. So if that's what kryptonite is, which I'm pretty sure it is, um, that's definitely it for me.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 47:19

All right, great answer, Mark. Thank you. Question number two is if you could have a billboard with anything on it, what would it be and why?

Dr. Marc Isseks: 47:29

I think I would use the quote that you just brought up before. Uh you know, tech is a microphone, not an encyclopedia. Um just as a reminder, a daily reminder of what the purpose of technology and where the true power of technology is. It's not in looking things up. Um, it's in what you can do and what you can say and how you can use your voice to empower others. Um so that would be that would be on my billboard.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 47:54

That is so powerful. Hopefully you'll make that into a shirt and let me know. I'll be your first cus, I'll be your first customer because it is it's definitely yeah, definitely for sure. I'll get a hoodie too and a cap because I love it. It is great. All right. Question number three, Mark. If you could trade places with a single person for a full day, who would that be and why?

Dr. Marc Isseks: 48:20

Well, I mentioned Gary V before, so I think I would choose Gary V because he just he's got he's like on it. He's like on everything. He's got the whole thing about technology down, he's really got a whole lot about parenting down. He has such great insights. So I would definitely swap places with him, although he's a Jet fan, so I might have to rethink that strongly because I'm a Giant fan. So that might be a deal breaker, but it jets aside, I think it might be Gary Vee for a day, at least right now in 2025.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 48:45

All right. Well, thank you, Mark. I really appreciate it. Uh please, before we wrap up again, officially, Rebbe, I know I've been saying that a lot of times, but please let our audience know how they may be able to connect with you, where your website or anything, or where it is that they can also get their hands on your amazing book.

Dr. Marc Isseks: 49:03

Sure. You can reach me at markis.com, just my first and last name.com. It has a link tree. So you can find me on all the social platforms. You can find a link to the book, a link to my podcast, a link to just about everything and anything that I that I put out there in terms of content. So that would be really the best place. Um, markiseks.com, M-A-R-C-I-S-S-E-K-S.com.

Dr. Fonz Mendoza: 49:25

Awesome. And awesome. Well, that'll definitely be on the show notes. And to all our audience members and listeners, thank you so much for your support. As always, we appreciate you. Thank you so much for just sharing our content, engaging with our content. But please make sure you visit our website at myedtech.life where you can check out this amazing episode and the other 337 episodes that we have, where I promise you you will definitely find a little something for you that you can sprinkle onto what you are already doing great. And again, a big shout out to our sponsors, Book Creator, Edu8, and Yellow Dig. Thank you so much for believing in our mission of bringing these great conversations into our education landscape to continue to grow ourselves professionally and personally as well. And my friends, until next time, don't forget, stay techie.