Episode 160: Transforming In-School Suspension

Episode 160:Transforming In-School Suspension

[00:00:00] Fonz: Hello everybody and welcome to another great episode of My EdTech Life. Thank you so much for making us part of your day. Wherever in the world you may be. As always, thankful as always for all of your support. Thank you so much for your messages. Thank you so much for. Your likes, your follows, your shares.

[00:00:41] They may, they make a difference here for our show and it just shows us that what we're doing is something that is great and beneficial to the education community. So I'm really excited about today's show. We have an amazing guest. We have an Off, he's an author. He also works for, uh, school [00:01:00] district nearby, actually, where I live, just a couple of hours.

[00:01:03] So I'm really excited to get his perspective on education, hear his story, and hear about the ways that he is transforming in school suspension and finding opportunities in, you know, this area that many of us may not be familiar with. Because I mean, we may be in the classroom. We may not have these programs right away, whether you're working in elementary, you know, so it just all depends.

[00:01:27] But I'm just really excited to have Mr. Jonathan Cramford with us here this morning. Jonathan, how are you this morning?

[00:01:34] Johnathan: I'm good. I'm, uh, it's nice to be doing a podcast in the morning, which I'm a morning person, so I'm actually, uh, awake and excited and in a good mood at this time of day. So this is a new experience for me doing a morning podcast and I'm, I'm here for

[00:01:47] Fonz: it.

[00:01:48] Excellent. Well, hey, that makes two of us morning people here and I'm just very excited about today's show. And so, uh, again, let's just go ahead and dive in. So, Jonathan, for our audience members that are tuning [00:02:00] in live or that will be watching us at a later or watching the show at a later time, please give us a little brief introduction and your context and education before we dive into your origin story.

[00:02:11] Johnathan: Right. So, uh, my context in education is I am, uh, an 11th year, uh, on my 11th year of teaching now. I worked in, uh, special ed for the first seven years, um, at a therapeutic campus for children with emotional disturbance, and now I've been I in school suspension for the past four years.

[00:02:31] Fonz: Okay, and what school district is it that you work?

[00:02:34] Johnathan: Klein Independent School District. We're right. Uh, we border Houston Independent School District, which is one of the largest in the country, and, but we're also surrounded by a bunch of other districts as well.

[00:02:45] Fonz: Excellent. Sounds great. Well, like I said, before we dive in into that superhero origin story, and like I tell all my guests, everybody that sits right here on this show is somebody that whose work I look up to or whose work I am kinda learning more from.[00:03:00]

[00:03:00] So as we know, every superhero has an origin story. So Jonathan, if you could tell us a little bit about your origin story and mainly. Education something that you wanted to go into, or was it something that you came into later in life and then you just kind of grew from there?

[00:03:18] Johnathan: Oh, much later in life. Uh, I was in hospital information management systems prior to becoming a school teacher.

[00:03:26] I was interested in it because my wife is a school teacher, uh, and she did it for about six years before I got into it, but I was 34 when I entered. Uh, for, uh, like I said, from a kind of sales and marketing background. And, uh, I did my alternative certification program one year and then, uh, just jumped right in.

[00:03:47] Uh, I, uh, like I said, I did, I was at that therapeutic campus for about seven years. High school, English for five, and, uh, PE for two, and then now, uh, in school suspension for the last. .

[00:03:57] Fonz: Okay. Sounds great. So, I mean, [00:04:00] again, very interesting as far as your coming in from hospital and coming in from that experience.

[00:04:05] Myself too, coming in from marketing, and I know people always probably hear that often at every show, but I, I just find it interesting, you know, people that come in from other, you know, uh, business backgrounds or other backgrounds, and then come into education. And so now, tell me a little bit about your experience.

[00:04:21] You know, now that you caught your alternative certification program, you said that you came into the classroom and doing special ed. Mm-hmm. . Can you tell me just a little bit about your experience, that first step into your classroom for the first day with students? ,

[00:04:36] Johnathan: right. It was fairly overwhelming, um, coming into it that way because, you know, we had students that were, you know, they were all labeled emotionally disturbed, and then they also were co comorbid with other issues.

[00:04:49] So, coming in there, I had all kinds of new things, you know, uh, IEPs and, um, you know, learning about PLA statements and how to write those and just, you know, coming in as a [00:05:00] SPED teacher is not the. Uh, entry route into teaching. Um, so it was fairly overwhelming. I did have some experience as a substitute teacher.

[00:05:07] I was a long-term sub right before, uh, working at that, on that same campus. Uh, and I came in, uh, working in a developmental classroom. Uh, same, same type of student, but developmental, uh, and I did that for the last semester going in. . Yeah, that was my entry into the classroom, I guess. Uh, the way I ended up in, in school suspension, um, I should tell you is, uh,

[00:05:37] I, well, first I should probably tell you that my wife and daughter are both school teachers. So the way I view my role in in-school suspension is to support not just the students, but other teachers. So that's kind of how I view my, my role. But I, I came in, you know, after the, after on that teaching, teaching on that therapeutic campus, for seven years, I was looking for a job switch.

[00:05:56] So I ended up taking the in-school suspension, uh, position on a middle [00:06:00] school campus. and, uh, the first year that I was there, uh, we started seeing results almost immediately. So as soon as I stepped on, I kind of brought my experience from the therapeutic campus. There was no instruction or any kind of training on how to run an in-school suspension room.

[00:06:15] They were basically just like, here it is, uh, you know, do your best with it. And they had some kind of guidelines, but it wasn't really a, a position where, not a skillset that we train in teaching. Right? Uh, so almost immediately I was getting feedback from teachers that were like, Hey, you know, you, uh, you got my student to, uh, complete all their work.

[00:06:34] You know, that's amazing. And or, uh, you know, they, they worked more for you than they do for me in a whole week. How do you get 'em to do that question mark? So, uh, like, I'm not exaggerating. I was getting basically like at the hero treat. Within the first year, and I had just barely started on kind of putting the program together.

[00:06:52] Like I had a basic structure in place, but it wasn't what it, what it is now. And you know, teachers were still running up to me saying, Hey, you know, the [00:07:00] kids are having different conversations about in-school suspension now than they were before. Um, , your, uh, you know, they're, they, they don't like to go there anymore.

[00:07:08] They intensely dislike going there now, but they're still saying positive things about you. So it was just kind of a different thing that was, that was happening for them. And, you know, I was getting great feedback, so I was like, okay, so I'm, I'm, it's kind of working now. Um, it's, uh, you know, they're, the kids are not missing too much instruction.

[00:07:24] They're, they're actually sometimes catching up on instruction or catching up on work, and it's still serving as a consequence. So I know it was on to something. And that was year one. Like people started noticing just the very first year I got. . And then, uh, year two, the district starts to notice and they start sending people to my classroom to observe it as like a model classroom.

[00:07:44] They're sending behavior specialists, um, other ISS teachers. Eventually they brought in another district that they were mentoring on PBIS on implementation, uh, to show them what a functional ISS room is looking at it's supposed to look like. So I start asking questions, uh, once we get to that point, because I'm [00:08:00] now starting to.

[00:08:00] get the kind of a attention that I've never really received at any point in my teaching career up to that point. So I start, you know, asking questions like, well, do we have other in-school suspension rooms that are, you know, that are similar to this? And they were like, well, nobody's really doing what you're doing.

[00:08:17] Uh, so that, so a light bulb kind of goes off of my head and I start, then I start asking around. So, um, I was, you know, like I said before, I'm bordered by a bunch of different school districts and I know teachers everywhere, so I start asking them, Uh, you know, what is is s s like on your campus? You know, what, what's it like in your district?

[00:08:34] And, you know, you get, when you ask that question, you get either, you know, well, ISS is a joke. The kids don't care about going there. They don't mind, they're, you know, kind of goofing off all day in there. Um, it's just a holding cell or a holding tank or. Uh, they'll say, oh yeah, is s s is good. We have a good is s s teacher.

[00:08:51] But then if you dig a little bit deeper and ask 'em a question like, well, how do you get assignments to that teacher? And they'll say, oh, well we don't really, you know, send 'em assignments so much [00:09:00] as, you know, but he makes 'em be quiet all day in there. Or, you know, it's kind of a punishment. And so I realize that, you know, like is s isn't really working on a lot of these campuses the way I believe that it should.

[00:09:11] Uh, so, uh, then I start looking on online just to do a little bit more digging and, and search some for some information, uh, about how it is, you know, around the country. And I'm finding out that if you look at the data, In-school suspension is right there with out of school suspension, you know, is s s and o s s are kind of the same.

[00:09:28] They're both just looked at as completely ineffective. Um, you know, if you send a kid, obviously we know suspending a child does nothing for their behavior. Um, it's not improving it. Um, and it's not, and they're missing academic, you know, academically they're, they're missing, um, instruction. So it's, it's a problem.

[00:09:46] And then if you look at the data, ISS is grouped right there with it as, as also completely ineffective. So, I'm starting to understand that this is a problem. Nationwide, you know, with our, with our education system, we don't have [00:10:00] those, uh, we don't have a structure tier two intervention for these kids, or tier three intervention really, um, for these kids.

[00:10:06] We just have, you know, really what we have it feels like is tier one support for behaviors. And then we have suspensions really. , you know, and, and detentions, which don't really do anything either. So that's when I, you know, I, I realized I already have a bit of a writing career. I, I, I'm, I come from an addiction, uh, a food addiction background.

[00:10:24] Um, uh, I, I read a book on emotional eating and, uh, stress eating, and I'm sure there's a million teachers right now that can, can relate to that. Um, and so, uh, with that background, I decided, you know, this isn't something that is too difficult to put into words. I could write a book. I looked on Amazon and saw that there isn't really, uh, books out there.

[00:10:44] On how to implement the system. There's books about, uh, you know, uh, what we call exclusionary discipline. You know, oss iss s but there's not books about how to implement, um, an effective in-school suspension program. Not the way I write it, where it's just a paint by numbers. You know, anybody can do [00:11:00] this, um, you know, with just a little bit of effort.

[00:11:03] Uh, so then I just decided to write the book and, and put it out there and, um, that's, that's how I ended up where I am.

[00:11:09] Fonz: Wow, that's all you know that. That is great. Everything that you just shared, and a couple of things that really stood out that I wanna go back is at the very beginning you said, you know, your job is to help support.

[00:11:23] Teachers and I thought that that was wonderful that you're coming in from that lens. That's the first time I ever hear somebody in, in, in, you know, who's in charge of i s s or working with, uh, you know, in, in that classroom setting, stating I am here to support the teachers. Cuz normally, you know, people's vision of ISS is like, oh, you're just gonna go in there and that's it.

[00:11:46] It's. That's your punish, your, your punishment, I guess, and you're just there. And here's a packet of handouts and worksheets and that's it. And just get to it. And really just the super, you know, being a supervisor there, making sure that, you know, 11 [00:12:00] kids go in, 11 kids come out and they all come out healthy and un, you know, scathed and uns scratched and that.

[00:12:05] Okay, the day is successful. We're good. All 11 kids went in, all 11 kids came out with everything and we're good to go. But the way that you stated that, it was something that really just blew my mind because I. I love that lens that you're coming at it with, and then of course, everything that you're describing as you work and with the students.

[00:12:25] So I wanna ask now and dive in what a typical day looks like for you. Like from the morning, you know, you get your students in, I wanna know how you, you know, really get the students to have those different conversations where they still, they still say, I don't wanna go there. However, you. It's not bad.

[00:12:46] Maybe what are, what are those positives that you heard, you know, aside from the students just being able to do their work. So if you can kinda walk me through that, I'm very curious and anxious to hear that. ,

[00:12:57] Johnathan: right? Well, yeah. Let me just say that. Yeah. [00:13:00] Having them, uh, come out of the room unscathed and healthy is always a good thing.

[00:13:03] We always strive for that. Um, yeah, that's a minimum requirement, obviously. Um, and you said something about being a supervisor, and I feel like a lot of the big issues that we, that we're seeing right now is, uh, the reasons the rooms aren't effective is because that's what it's being treated as. That's what.

[00:13:21] people are coming around and looking for is, well, is there supervision? Right? But I'm not a supervisor, I'm an educator. I've been in this job for 11 years now. Right. So I don't want to just supervise cuz I'm not supporting teachers by supervising, you know, we can get anybody to do that job that is, um, that doesn't require professional.

[00:13:39] Um, so, so a typical day for me, , um, I'll, without getting into the nuts and bolts of the in-school suspension, um, process, we, we can get into that in a minute of, you know, like how I, I, I, I get into, you know, controlling the room and, and making all that happen. Um, I get my students in the morning. I set a strong tone at the beginning of the day.

[00:13:59] [00:14:00] We go over the rules and expectations. They know exactly what is gonna be expected of them. I have a system for getting work from the teachers usually beforehand. Um, it's not often that, well, I wouldn't say it's not often. It's, I don't have to scramble to get work. All day long. Um, there are assignments ready to go, and I'm managing those assignments for however many kids I have in the room.

[00:14:21] I, we try to cap it at 12 because that's, uh, the research that it does. The small amount of research that does exist exists about in school suspension says if you're, once you get over 15, it becomes just, uh, completely self-defeating. Um, but so we try to cap it around 12. For, for myself, that's my pre. Um, sometimes we can't, but for the most part we can.

[00:14:41] And now think about, I'm managing 12 students, times eight teacher. So we're, so we have to have a system for making all of that work. And that's not just dropping off stuff, you know, or, or whatever. We have a spreadsheet that everybody has access to, and my assignments, they send notes to me in that spreadsheet.

[00:14:58] That's how we communicate. So [00:15:00] all the assignments are tracked in there. Um, and then I have my own spreadsheet and my own system for managing the seating chart, the seating arrangement, the behaviors, and keeping track of who's on what assignment. I don't make them when they're in, in school suspension.

[00:15:13] They do have some self-efficacy. I try to give them, uh, respect and efficacy as much as possible. . And one of the ways I do that is, uh, they choose the order of how they want to complete their work as long as it's available. Uh, so, you know, one student may be on ela, another student may be on math, another student may be on science.

[00:15:29] But I have a way to keep track of all that and know where everybody's at and where they're supposed to be. And I have a way of monitoring that. Um, So once I set that tone and expectation for the day, um, letting them know what the structure is, how we're gonna handle everything from restroom breaks to lunch, uh, then, uh, then it's a matter of, it's really actually fairly easy and simple for me.

[00:15:49] After that, then it's a matter of, for the next several hours I'm managing their work, making sure they're on task. And then often I have a student at my desk almost all the time where we're working one. . [00:16:00] Um, and that's really the magic of in-school suspension and the missed opportunity in my opinion, because I have an eternity with my learner.

[00:16:08] I am so lucky I get to spend, like, I've spent three hours, you know, with a kid just working one-on-one. Um, I'll give you an example just before we left for break. Um, we have eighth grade regulars are, you know, still working on, um, uh, path theorum, right? So in math they're working on A squared plus B squared, equal C squared.

[00:16:26] And uh, you know, so I get started working on a kid with that and. Or working with a kid on that. And they're, um, you know, we find out that they don't know how to handle the two-step equation, uh, because it's fairly new to them. Right. Well, and we learn also that they don't know how to do a one step equation.

[00:16:43] So we can go back and drill those skills. And, you know, that takes a little while. And then once I kind of have 'em working on that for a little bit, then we kind of learn that, oh, you don't know how to. Decimals. Okay, well that's an earlier skill that you're not gonna get, right? So, uh, so if I don't go back and drill that I can, you know, [00:17:00] we're, we're, we're not gonna close that gap.

[00:17:02] Uh, so, and then their, their math teacher isn't gonna have time to work one-on-one with them. Like, I do not, they're not gonna get three hours of one-to-one in a whole year. And that's not because they have a bad math teacher. That's just cause that math teacher has 28 students a day. Um, so I can sit there and close.

[00:17:16] And we can do grade repair. Uh, also, so if they've got twenties and thirties in the grade book, once we finish their work for the day, we'll go back and repair some of that. But really the beauty of it for me, I get excited is when I can go back to fifth grade and close something that they didn't get there, or sixth grade, you know, if they don't know how to add in, subtract fractions with unlike denominators and they're in seventh grade, well you know, that's a fifth grade or you know, fourth grade skill, I can't remember.

[00:17:38] But you know, we can go back and fix that. We can start drilling that and now we're gonna be. Caught up a little bit to, and some of the stuff is gonna be so overwhelming. And I should say, like, I'm not a math teacher, that my wife is a math teacher. She's probably one of the best math teachers in the country.

[00:17:54] Um, but I spend a lot of time working on math skills because that's where a lot of the gaps are. [00:18:00] And uh, that's where, you know, a lot of the behaviors come from because the kids just so behind that they've already made a choice about their educational future that they're like, I'm not gonna catch up on this, so I'm, I'm kind of done.

[00:18:09] And if we can sit there and spend some time showing them how easy it is just to catch. And, uh, you know, and then, then they, they get a little bit more interested in school and we help to break down some of those behaviors that are, you know, they're not, well take away some of the behaviors that were gonna happen in the future because the kid's frustrated or just checked out because we're now back closer to where we should be with, you know, with that subject with math or e l a or whatever.

[00:18:31] I do it with all the subjects, but ends up being a lot of math. Uh uh, unfortunately. .

[00:18:35] Fonz: No, but I mean, that's excellent. You know, the type, the type of work that you're doing. There is something that I've never heard of, you know, but you're able to, like you said, close some gaps. You're able to do the one-on-ones.

[00:18:45] You're working really that small group instruction, yet juggling, like you said, all the different subjects, you know, eight teachers per student, making sure that that work comes in and it's getting done. You know, going back to the way that you said, you [00:19:00] state the tone, you set the expectations, all of that.

[00:19:02] What are some of your strategies there? Like, I mean, if you could have students that are coming in. . Okay. Let me ask first, some of the students that you're coming in, is it various, um, I guess, uh, you know, discipline issues that they're coming in with, you know, or is it just, you know, overall just, you know, maybe messing around, skipping and then they come in and, you know, so what, what is it that you see mainly from the students that are coming in as far as the discipline

[00:19:27] Johnathan: issue?

[00:19:28] Oh, we see everything. Okay. So, uh, everything fighting vaping, excessive tar. Um, you know, kids make poor choices at the junior high level. It's normal. It's every school district in the country is dealing with that right now. Um, and, uh, you know, it, it's just you, you'll see everything. If you're an is s teacher in at the middle school, high school level, you're gonna see pretty much every behavior there is.

[00:19:51] All right. Um, now how we deal with that individually as far as like targeted inter. . It just depends. Um, it depends on how many kids are in [00:20:00] there. We'll do a lot of circling at the end of the day, and there's a reason I put it towards the end of the day. Um, and, you know, throughout the day we'll also have some opportunities maybe to do some, uh, character, you know, behavior, reflection, um, stuff like that.

[00:20:12] As a, as a. As an is s teachers by themselves to do the one-on-one character reflection stuff or, or behavior reflection. Um, it's hard to do that without it becoming a spectacle for the other kids in the room to have those conversations. So, uh, if you have like, uh, an an in-school suspension room, which that has like maybe a para in there or somebody who can step in and then you could have a conversation out in the hall, it's a lot easier to do that.

[00:20:35] And I have a partner. who is doing that at another campus now where he has a paraprofessional in the room with him and they can handle a few more kids than we can. Um, and then he can also do a lot more one-on-one, which is a luxury I don't have because of, uh, because it's just me in the room. Uh, but we've, with the program that I've, uh, that, that I've created and trained him on, he's doing some great things within school suspension with a paras, it's even more effective in my.

[00:20:59] Yeah.

[00:20:59] Fonz: So tell me [00:21:00] more about this model, you know, what has been working for you that what has been, you know, effective for you, that other districts are seeing what you're doing and are like, wow, you know, we definitely need to do that. So if you can kind of walk us through as to how this came about, how did this process just come to you and say, Hey, this is kinda working and I'm gonna put it down with pen and paper and I'm gonna write a book about it.

[00:21:23] So I'm curious to. A little bit more about that. Okay.

[00:21:27] Johnathan: Right. So it starts with, uh, what I call infrastructure. So the, the physical and the digital component of in-school suspension needs to be there first, right? So the physical is just like, how do you set up your room? Um, you know, are the desks, you know, facing away from each other?

[00:21:43] Are we cutting down on the opportunities for children to, you know, have conversations in there? Um, because they're not supposed to be talking with each other. They're not, they're suspended, but they're in school, right? So they're not supposed to be interacting with anybody, but. During the day until we get to that part of the day at the end where we're doing circling and doing, you know, what we call social emotional [00:22:00] learning, sel.

[00:22:01] Um, so, uh, once you've got your, your physical part set up, that's the easy part. You've got your desks, you've got number desks, uh, preferably, um, then you're gonna go to what I call, uh, the digital side of things. And that was the spreadsheet I was talking about. So it's editable by every teacher in the building.

[00:22:19] There's one slot per student name for every subject, and there's three spots for electives, even though they never have more than two. Um, and uh, there, so, so that's where teachers will put what exactly the assignment is. If there's a, uh, if there's a time when it's gonna be available. Say we're doing testing or something, you know, maybe they're, they have a test in Edge Ofor, I don't know if, dunno if you guys use that system.

[00:22:40] Okay, so let's say there's a test in Edge Foria. Um, they're, uh, and it's not gonna be open until fourth period. Like they can communicate to that to me, so I can let the student know, well, we can't do math or we can't do ELA yet until fourth because it's not gonna be open. Um, but otherwise, you know, we can, we can do these other subjects cuz they're available all day.

[00:22:56] Um, and the teacher will tell me exactly. , uh, what's in [00:23:00] there and if they don't, you know, I can still usually figure it out, depending if it's in Schoology or Google Classroom. Uh, for the students, if you have a one-to-one campus, like most of them are nowadays, um, if you don't have a one-to-one campus, then you can still implement this system.

[00:23:11] It's just, they'll have to send you through the spreadsheet or email. hard copies, and then you'd need a printer in the room to be able to just print everything out right there. Um, so that's the digital side and the, oh, well there is also the, my spreadsheet. Um, so that's the spreadsheet that's editable by everyone where I get work and communicate with teachers a little bit.

[00:23:29] Then there's a spreadsheet that's only editable by me, and it has three tabs, and one is the seating chart, which goes by number. , and that's important. I'll tell you why in a second. And then two is the, um, that's the uh, uh, what I just call assignment tracking. So that's where I know where everybody's at and what they're on.

[00:23:43] And I actually use that one. It's really interesting. I'll just put down math like in the spreadsheet because I have the other spreadsheet that's actually pretty big and wieldy and it's not very, You can't move around very quickly. And so I just want to know where everybody's at at one time on my spreadsheet, and then I can refer [00:24:00] back to the other one to know exactly what the assignment is.

[00:24:02] Cause the assignment could be very long, it could be a lot of information there. Um, and I don't want my spreadsheet to get real massive, so I'm like moving all over the. Place. Cause I have to answer questions constantly. Um, you know, what am I, what am I supposed to do next, sir? Or what do I do, you know, with this assignment?

[00:24:15] Or I think I'm done with ELA and, you know, but I'll be like, oh, but you haven't finished the cash out or the um, uh, the exit ticket activity. You know? So I have to be able to know what's going on very quickly. So I'll put just, you know, if you're on math, on that spreadsheet, you're on math. And then when you've brought it to me and showed me that it has been completed to my satisfaction, then I just write done next to it and move on to the next thing.

[00:24:32] And then the third tab on my spread. Is the behavior tracking and that shows, um, basically that is all my documentation for behaviors in that room. And the way that works is, um, it, it came from an archaic system that I inherited what was called three strikes. And you're out. I'm sure that's pretty self-explanatory.

[00:24:52] Um, so you would've three opportunities, I guess, in, um, old ISS to, you know, You'd [00:25:00] get three chances with your behaviors and then you would be struck out. And I think they used to suspend people or, or whatever afterwards. Um, or, or sign various consequences. And I was like, okay, well there's a, a few problems with that.

[00:25:12] One. Prior to my being there, they had a bunch of different i s s teachers in the room kind of sharing. They'd have a different is SS teacher come in every one to two periods. And that wasn't like their main job. . So that was ineffective because then they have a three strikes policy, but then nobody wants to give out a strike because it's like, well, they've only got three and I don't want to mess over with the other teacher.

[00:25:32] So it just was totally ineffective. Um, the way my system works, even though it's just me in the room. is you have a verbal warning first. All right? And there's a spread. And on the spreadsheet it says, verbal warning. There's a column for that next to each of their names. And then there's in-class consequence, and then there's strike.

[00:25:48] And so I have a place to document for every single one of those, why they received a verbal warning, why they received an in-class consequence, why they received a strike. So you actually have nine chances before your behavior gets you to a point where you didn't successfully [00:26:00] complete your day of i s. S.

[00:26:01] Right? And. . My deal with my principals, uh, my assistant principals is that as much as we can, if they do not successfully complete their day of i s s, the, the consequence is not out of school suspension. Right. The consequence is just more is ss like, I want them with me more. Like they didn't make it, Hey, I'm not mad.

[00:26:20] You know, let's try to do better next time. But you're. Are gonna probably have to serve another day. Right. So, because OSS is not a threat to these kids, you know, they go home, they have, you know, they have, there's a lot of reasons why it's, it's, you know, they have Netflix, they have video games, they have PlayStation.

[00:26:34] Um, there's a lot of reasons why, you know, OSS is more of a reward for behavior a lot of times than it is. Um, A, uh, a consequence for bad behavior. So, um, so that's how I kind of track the behaviors. And I have a whole system for redirecting and documentation that is, um, it's, it's, that's an art in and of itself, that, you know, you have to teach people.

[00:26:55] Um, uh, so yeah, that's where, that's my setup, um, [00:27:00] for how I, I kind of do that. And then most of the day is just kind of floating between those two spreadsheets and working one-on-one with kids. And then at the end of the day, we'll do some sel. . There you

[00:27:09] Fonz: go. Wow. You know, it sounds like you really have this styled in, and I can see why you've definitely been very successful, and I can see why even the students would give you that feedback because you have everything very well organized.

[00:27:21] Uh, I love the way, you know, you've got all the physical layout, you've got the digital layout. You've got that open communication with teachers, you're able to give the students what it is that they need at the specific times, which makes things easier for you, gives you a nice flow also to your day. And of course, the students are continually working and most importantly, like you said, they still have the opportunity to come up to you and say, Hey sir, I need a little bit of extra help.

[00:27:45] You're able to kinda work with them, close some of those gaps. I mean, that just really is just amazing right now with everything that you shared. I'm like, this what you are implementing here in I S s. A lot of what I'm [00:28:00] seeing is, wow, you know, I can see that, how that could be applied into just regular classroom practice too as well.

[00:28:06] You know, some of those things. So, I mean, you know, Because you've described so much of what you've done, but I still wanna ask, you know, coming into this, and with all the work that you've done, what still are some of the biggest challenges that you face, you know, within the, the tier two, tier three, you know, uh, practice that you have, that you do within i s s?

[00:28:31] Johnathan: Wow. Well, for me right now, um, it's just getting. It's not a kid issue anymore for me. You know, I'm at the level that I'm at, you know, I don't really, I, we see the behaviors. Um, I know exactly how I'm gonna respond to every behavior in my classroom. Um, that's not a mystery, you know, the rules are there.

[00:28:51] They're very extensive. We go over them. Uh, I know what the consequences are and I know how to redirect and document. Um, so that's almost an afterthought for me. Um, the [00:29:00] challenge is, you know, just making, getting people now to see the value of what I do. Trying to train the teachers on my campus. Um, I work really well with them now.

[00:29:09] Um, they're, uh, you know, there's a lot of cool stuff that we can do. Uh, With that, you know, with that communication, uh, the more information they give me, the better. So, you know, it's good. Now I got 'em all to where the point where they're all sending work. That's not an issue. You'd be surprised that used to be an issue.

[00:29:27] Um, but, you know, I trained 'em at the beginning of the year and that's not so much an issue anymore. But now sometimes it's like, hey, um, let's go beyond that. You know, what if I have time, can I work with this kid one-on-one on? Um, so that, and then training even, you know, the people who give out the consequences.

[00:29:40] In our, in our school district, it's the assistant principal. Getting them to see the value. So most of them do, um, but you know, they're still treating it sometimes, uh, some of them like an older i s s room. Right. So, and I'm trying to communicate to them like, Hey, if you treat it like a dumping ground, then it's gonna be a dumping ground.

[00:29:57] Right. Not with me in there, because [00:30:00] I'm, it's, it's, I'm used to it. I can handle, you know what, I've been doing this for long enough to be able to handle any situation pretty much. But I want them to see the value and get that word out there to, to everyone at every school. That's my challenge now is, is really the message, getting this out there.

[00:30:14] Like, Hey, this is something that can be extremely beneficial. It benefits the kids, it makes lives, teachers' lives easier. And that is huge right now because we've got major teacher retention issues. Um, you know, I'm not gonna to speak to that. If you think about how behavior works on a campus, you're a school teacher, you start seeing behaviors in your classroom, right?

[00:30:35] And now you do everything you can to handle that within your classroom, okay? And that takes time. But then eventually it gets to a point where you've got to write a referral, right? So you've documented, you've tried strategies, and now you have to contact a parent, cuz that's step one, right before you can even write a referral.

[00:30:52] Now the first thing the, uh, you know, your admin is gonna ask you is, well, did you contact the parent? So you contact the parent that takes. You then, um, you know, you [00:31:00] write the referral, you put it into whatever referral process you have. Then it gets to, uh, an administrator and they have to contact a parent after they decide to do an, they do an investigation first, right?

[00:31:10] They spend time working on that. Then they contact a parent and then they assign a consequence, right? And then the kid ends up with me. and, you know, I can't, what, what shouldn't happen is now I just then give back that child after one to three days to that teacher and that student is now, after going through that whole process and taking up all that time of, of, you know, two other people's day, now this kid, I'm gonna give them back not having served a consequence and three days behind an ins.

[00:31:38] right? So that's not, you know, that can't happen. That's, that's the, that's the issue, right? So that's my, that's my, what I'm trying to communicate to everybody now is like, hey, you know, um, Let's, you know, follow this program the way it's meant to be. And, you know, put kids in there at the beginning of the day.

[00:31:55] Don't put 'em in there, you know, third, fourth period, cuz that's, you know, then they're not getting the morning, uh, [00:32:00] spiel. I have a whole con, uh, whole chapter in my book called Win the Morning. Win the Day. Um, that sets the tone and expectation for the day and that's very important. So, , getting people to avoid as much as possible throwing a kid in their fourth period because, you know, they just want to get 'em out there.

[00:32:14] It's like, no, no, no. What we do here is very important to get them in there in the morning and they serve a full day. I don't care if you want to give 'em to me for more days. Um, but it's better that they start at the beginning of the day so that they can really f. Get the full experience and I can get, uh, and I can get them going.

[00:32:29] So, you know, that's one of the struggles in, in, in-school suspension. And I think just the, the, the more people you get the word out to, the more people that we get to see the value of, you know, what it can do, uh, then, you know, that will be less and less of a problem. But right now, You know, the, the schools are struggling for an answer and I feel like I have, it's not a ma, it's not a silver bullet.

[00:32:47] It's not gonna solve all their behavior issues, but it's gonna help on the behavior side. Uh, it's gonna help on academically and it's gonna help teachers to wanna stick around for a little bit longer. Um, cuz that's a major issue. .

[00:32:59] Fonz: Yeah, I [00:33:00] agree. So what I'm hearing is, you know, it's really just changing those mindsets.

[00:33:03] Like you said, you know, obviously as principals they may think like, oh, I assess like the old I s s. So I assess that when I first came into teaching back in 2005, is just, uh, the kids just, you know, causing trouble. And then it's either you're there the whole day. Or like you said, sometimes it's like, well, it's the fourth period or fourth block, and it's just, I just, I need 'em out.

[00:33:23] And then principal's like, okay, go to i s s for the rest of the day. And that's it. And it was a way to either get outta class or the kid is missing instruction, uh, whatever the case is. But then it's just, I'm here in i s s and all they're doing is just being supervised and. , whether they do their work or not.

[00:33:38] I mean, they were, they were, at least they were outta your classroom. But I love what you're doing and changing that mindset and that mentality of, you know, yes, it's gonna be, it serves as, you know, a punishment or for discipline, but you're here all day, but you're going to get more. You're not gonna fall behind.

[00:33:56] And I love the way that that has flipped. I mean, what you're doing to [00:34:00] me is novel and like I mentioned to you, Even pre, uh, you know, in the pre-chat is I, I've been removed from, you know, seeing, if I'm thinking to myself, do we even still do i s s in our district? Which I'm sure we do, but the way that you're describing it, I'm like, man, this, this is amazing.

[00:34:15] And that support that you're bringing, but also because you are being successful, changing that mindset and working with the teachers, communicating. And training them into how to make things a little bit easier. So what are some of the things that teachers have said or, or the feedback? And we'll start with teachers first and then we'll move with admin.

[00:34:33] Cuz obviously, you know, you told me that there are school districts that really are seeing the value of what you're bringing and how you've transformed, you know, in school suspension. But at least from the teacher side. . Curious to know what are some of the things that, and like you said, because teacher retention is an issue, and of course discipline problems can lead to the, you know, the burnout and just teachers feeling frustrated.

[00:34:56] What are some of the great things that you're hearing from teachers [00:35:00] based on the support that you are bringing to them as well?

[00:35:03] Johnathan: Right. Teachers are, like I said before, just grateful that they sent a kid in and now he's coming back to them. Caught up on his work. Oftentimes, like caught up several weeks of work that he had not turned in.

[00:35:20] Uh, that happens quite often. Uh, he or she had not turned in. Um, or when I'm, you know, closing gaps, I'll let the teachers know. Actually, I have to toot my own horn sometimes to let them know, especially since I'm on a new campus this year. I let them know what I'm doing and I don't think there's anything wrong with like letting people know they actually really like that.

[00:35:37] They're like, oh yeah, he didn't have that skill. So you worked with him on that. Oh, thank you. You know, we've been struggling. I can't barely get the kid to, you know, Do multiplication, you know, so, you know, were you struggling with that? Um, so just you being able to fix that or, or at least drill that for a little while.

[00:35:52] That's th that's helping them. So they're very grateful Most of the time. I don't have to, you know, put that out there. that, you know, [00:36:00] that I, that I, uh, just to get to, to get positive feedback. I don't have to to send them, um, you know, anything. Usually I just, I, I let them know that I helped a child with skills just so that they know that they, they can look at that skill now and see improvement.

[00:36:13] Um, and that can inform their teaching, uh, and their work with that child. But, uh, just the, the, for the, when they come to me, it's usually because the kid's caught up on work or they've repaired some grades now, the kid's passing. Um, so they'll come with very positive feedback for that. And just, like I said, they still treat me like a hero.

[00:36:31] You know, even, uh, my last campus I was iss s for three years, and even in the third year, people were just, you know, they would still come up. At least once a week and, and thank me, uh, for something I did with a student and then, you know, now I'm at a new campus and you know, I get to be, it's fun cuz you know, people are like, wow, this is so great.

[00:36:45] Thank you so much for everything you're doing. And it's nice. I like being an is s s teacher. Like I love being an is s teacher. It's cool you get to, like I said, you get to spend an attorney with your students one-on-one that it just doesn't get to happen anymore in a regular ed classroom of 28 [00:37:00] students.

[00:37:00] Uh, on the administrator side, this is fairly new for me cuz I didn't really think about it. Again, like I said, I got into. once it started, you know, uh, being successful, I got into it to support teachers. You know, I get to work with the kids, which I enjoy. But my main thing is, you know, my wife and daughter are teachers.

[00:37:15] All my friends are teachers. I'm, I'm trying to support them and make it so that they'll stick around. and, and make their lives easier. But, so I didn't really think about it or consider it much from an administrative perspective until just this year. I, I'm at a campus with less behaviors now, so it's a different demographic.

[00:37:31] I was at a Title one campus before, and now I'm at a, a, a campus that is not, and they have sometimes, I don't have very many kids often in, in, in school suspension. Um, so there's other things that I do, but I was joking around with an administrator, uh, at lunch and I was like, Hey, you know, I'm sorry. I'm, I'm, uh, I'm, I'm not having to do you.

[00:37:49] That much for you guys. And he goes, oh no, you've helped me out so much. Because now I can tell parents it makes my job easier when I call a parent. Their [00:38:00] argument is, you know, they parents wanna get their kids out of trouble a lot of the time. You know, that's just their instinct. And even if the kid deserves it sometimes, you know, it's just they deserve a consequence.

[00:38:08] But the parent wants to try to argue and their way out of it. He said, but I can tell them now, Hey, you know, this guy works with them. You know, he closes gaps. He does. He's an actually, you know, there's education in there. They're not missing instruction because that's the parent's main argument is, well, why put 'em in there?

[00:38:22] They're not gonna learn anything all day. Right. Why stick 'em in that room? And I get that. I understand as a parent why you would want to avoid that. Um, , I don't get why you would wanna avoid your child getting a consequence. Um, but we've all dealt with that as teachers, you know, you're like, Hey, this kid should have a consequence.

[00:38:36] Why are you arguing for them not to have one? Um, but in the case of in-school suspension or, or out of school suspension, I get it. You know, you don't want your kid to miss a day of school. It's not helping, right? So he, his job is easier now. He can call parents and say, no, they're not gonna miss anything.

[00:38:49] If anything, they're gonna do better in school because we sent them to iss. They're gonna have a, a more productive day. So it helps out administrators. Um, You know, that's not what gets me outta bed in the morning. Um, [00:39:00] getting outta teachers, getting, I mean, helping teachers is what gets me outta bed every morning.

[00:39:03] Um, but it's nice that it helps administrators. It's good to get that feedback.

[00:39:06] Fonz: Yeah, no, I love everything. Like I said, right now, I'm just taking this all in. Like I said, I, I'm not an expert in this field and up until today's conversation, you know, really diving in into this, but everything that you're stating and even just right from the get go, the way you stated, you know, I'm here to support teachers.

[00:39:24] That right there. I'm just like, wow. So, um, I've been sharing your Twitter here on the chat. I've also been sharing your book, uh, the book website also as well. So let's talk a little bit about the book before we kind of start wrapping up. You know, for anybody that's gonna be wi that's watching live or anybody that's gonna catch the replay, you know, if you can just tell us a little bit a, as far as the book.

[00:39:43] The, the layout, what people will get from this book, because people may be interested, there may be after today's show and people start, you know, hear listening. They may say like, Hey, I wanna know a little bit more and learn more about what Jonathan is doing, maybe what they can implement. So tell us a little bit [00:40:00] about the book and what people will be able to find within that book.

[00:40:04] Johnathan: Sure. So the book is titled, the Art of In-School Suspension, A Discipline Program that benefits Teachers and Students. Um, I should probably have bolded one of those part, the, the teacher's part, because it's not just about the students. We're, we're helping teachers too. Um, and what you get inside of it is, well, one, um, I.

[00:40:22] Like I said before, I have a t I have a bit of a writing career in, um, food Addiction recovery. Uh, wrote a book called The Sugar Demons back in, uh, 2018. That was the bestseller. Um, and so I, I, I come from that background and one of the things I always tell people is, I will not write a boring book. I would rather die than write a boring book.

[00:40:38] So what you'll get in the art of in-school suspension is not just the practical knowledge, but I start off every chapter with some sort of anecdote about my life, something I've experienced in. In the real world. And that's what I, where I start and then I go into the practical knowledge. So every chapter is basically like three parts.

[00:40:55] It's like something from me, which you can probably skip if you want to, if you're just more of [00:41:00] like a hard data. How do I, how do I do this type of person? And um, then, uh, then there's, you know, just the second part would be, you know, this is how you implement. This is everything you need to know. This is, you know, how you implement the physical, you know, aspect of the room.

[00:41:12] This is how you set up the digital aspect. Um, and then the third would just be, uh, a, uh, a summary. So it's very teacher ish the way I write. Um, and, uh, yeah, that's, uh, that's it. You can find it on Amazon. That's the way the book is written. It goes through every thing you would need. Um, uh, it takes you through also, and I, we haven't talked much about the SEL stuff, but I talk about.

[00:41:34] uh, the, you know, social emotional learning, circling that part of it, why I put it at the end, and then I talk about what I call the art of in-school suspension. Or more on the art side, which is, uh, we talk a lot about social emotional learning in teaching now, but just because we're adults, that doesn't mean we stopped growing in that department, right?

[00:41:54] Like we're still learning about ourselves and in school suspension. This is why being an in-school suspension teacher is so [00:42:00] awesome is I get to practice every single day. That sort of stuff too. Like I. Dealing with behaviors, you know, dealing with these, these tense situations and not having an emotional response, or not letting that get me into, you know, a bad, uh, a bad place or an unprofessional place.

[00:42:16] Like, I get to practice that every day. I look forward to that, even if, you know, I, I'd rather them not have behaviors. Or, you know, have rude comments or have a negative attitude. But I get to deal with that because I feel like that's something that helps me to grow as a person. You know, like not learning to not have an emotional response, learning to assume positive intent in that student, even if it's a negative behavior, you know, assuming that it comes from a positive place and then myself not having an emotional response.

[00:42:40] Those are two things that are just extremely valuable to cultivate as an adult, and you get to do that as a regular classroom teacher. But really, Uh, as an in-school suspension teacher, you get to live that life every day. And so I, I, I, I talk a lot about that at the, at the end, and that's what you're gonna learn about, I guess in, in my book.

[00:42:58] Um, apart from learning [00:43:00] how to run an in-school suspension program,

[00:43:02] Fonz: Excellent. And I'm sharing here the website here. So it's the art of in-school suspension, and you do have some info here. I obviously, I highlighted this right here, the proven results and everything. But I guess this is where, uh, teachers and administrators or anybody in the education field that would like to learn more, they can go ahead and go here to this website, the art of iss.com, where they can go ahead and contact you and find out more.

[00:43:26] Now, my question to you too is Jonathan is. For example, if a district is very interested in what it is that you're doing, the work that you're doing, uh, you know, the best way that they can reach you, how would that be? And, you know, are you, do you offer, you know, professional development in this field and in this area?

[00:43:46] Johnathan: Yeah. That's what the website is for. Um, that is, yeah. We're, this is very new. Um, I didn't write the book thinking that I was going to start, uh, an education consulting or anything like that. That wasn't my goal. Uh, but because there's been such a [00:44:00] response to what I do, not just in my campus, but just in talking with other people.

[00:44:04] I thought, you know what, we could probably PD this for some people and it would be very helpful. And I realized that's what I really would love to do because I can't clone myself, but I can teach people how to do this. I don't have any special superpowers that other teachers don't have. That's my wife.

[00:44:20] She's a super talented math teacher. Um, I'm regular teacher, . Um, I, uh, I, you know, I, there's, if I can do it, I feel like anybody can do it. Um, so I can, you know, I can teach them through the book. I can teach the book through the workshop and also, and, and, and, um, all the, the little things that you really need.

[00:44:37] I feel like a workshop is probably the best way, you know, reading the book will help, but having some, you know, professional development on it would. Be the best, most effective way to get people on board. And also what I've learned in doing this position is, um, I do work with the ISS teachers in my campus now.

[00:44:53] I mean, in my, um, in my district now, but also if I, you know, to work with another district, I would want some of the people who [00:45:00] assign the behaviors in there so that they can understand. What the ISS room should look like because, uh, um, I talk about this a little bit in my book. You know, I'm the only one holding myself accountable.

[00:45:11] So on that behavior spreadsheet, like my goal every day is to get, you know, at least 90% of our core content classes done right. and if they're not a teacher can actually come to me and I will have documentation as to why that work didn't get accomplished. Right. I'll have documentation on the behavior spreadsheet as well.

[00:45:28] You know, we were struggling with work avoidance for the first three periods and I have all this documentation to show what happened. I'm very good at that. That's something that takes a lot longer to teach, but I could go into more detail in, in the actual, uh, workshop. Um, but nobody's actually looking for that.

[00:45:41] That's something I imposed upon myself. . So, um, what we would need is, you know, other teachers out there, or, or sorry, um, admin out there who are assigning these consequences, uh, to understand what it's supposed to look like so that they can go in and help those, support those ISS teachers into making, uh, the room look the way that it should and, and, and function [00:46:00] the way that it should.

[00:46:01] So it's not just about an in-school suspension teacher being on board and knowing, but the admin need to know. Also so that they can support that teacher, um, and also, you know, know what it should look like. You know, that's, that's what the workshop is for. It's not just for ISS teachers, it's for the admin and the ISS teachers together so that they can make a functional room.

[00:46:18] Fonz: Excellent. Well, thank you so much, Jonathan. I really appreciate it. And again, for all of our, you know, listeners, please make sure if this is something that you find that is of great value, please make sure that you reach out to Jonathan and you'll be able to find all the information in the show notes.

[00:46:33] And Jonathan, you, you say you're a regular teacher, but you're definitely doing superhero things. Thank you so much for being a guest here on the show. I really appreciate you taking the time and just really sharing. This amazing body of work that you're doing that really today was a great day for me just to soak all of this in and see things in a different perspective.

[00:46:52] And of course, most importantly too, to be able to connect with you as well. And um, so thank you so much. But before we wrap up, I always love to end [00:47:00] the show with the following three questions, Jonathan. So let's see if you are ready. So here we go. Question number one. As we know, every superhero may have a weakness and I always kind of go with the super.

[00:47:12] Kryptonite, you know, theme. So in the current state of education, Jonathan, what would you say is your current EDU krypton?

[00:47:21] Johnathan: Right. So I'm ready. Um, I, I, I do my research. I've watched, I've watched your podcast. I, I really like your podcast, by the way. I should say that. I've, I've, I've, I've listened to all of them, but I've gotten through about four episodes now.

[00:47:31] Fantastic. Um, so, uh, my Edge Kryptonite is, Big one for me is just hearing and reading about all the teachers that we're losing. Right. You know, they, teachers don't make it a lot of times, most of 'em aren't, aren't making it past three years. And so we can replace those teachers through, um, the alternative certification programs, those for-profit, alternative certification programs.

[00:47:53] Nothing wrong with that. I came through one, my daughter went through one and my wife went through one. Um, and which we all went through the. [00:48:00] and a plus Texas teachers, right? 60% of teachers that that, that in, um, in, in Texas now are coming through that program. And, uh, that's okay, but we can't replace the experience in the classroom and the knowledge that it takes to get there after those three years.

[00:48:13] So, you know, that's why I'm doing what I'm doing because if we can get those teachers to stay an extra year, if they don't feel so overwhelmed or feel like there's no support when it comes to behaviors, that sort of thing, maybe they'll stick. For an extra, you know, that fourth and fifth year when they really start to feel confident in the classroom and, you know, they'll, they'll stick around and make a career out of it instead of just leaving after three years.

[00:48:32] Fonz: Oh, excellent. Great answer, Jonathan. Thank you so much. All right. Question number two. If you could have a billboard with anything on it. What would it be and why? Yes.

[00:48:43] Johnathan: Okay, so, uh, mine is a little bit wordy and I wrote it down. I'm gonna have to read it. It comes from Holly Whitaker. She wrote a book, a really famous book called, uh, quit Like a Woman.

[00:48:52] It's about alcohol, uh, addiction. And I come from a addiction recovery background. And what I said earlier about, you know, being able to work on [00:49:00] myself every day in, in school suspension while being able to help these kids, it comes from that. And so I'll read it to you right now. It's probably a little long for a billboard, but I, I love it.

[00:49:08] And edited for language. Um, the truth is honestly, that personal growth is boring. It's as vanilla as how kind you are to the guy checking you out at the Safeway or how rude you were in that text. It's dull and monotonous and tedious, and it's exactly the flavor of what you're dealing with right now that you think it shouldn't be or wish it wasn't is the telltale sign that it should.

[00:49:29] You said you wanted to wake up. Here's your chance. Go forth and grow, and stop looking for the better path or lesson you want because you'll miss the exact opportunity you asked for. Your prayer is being. Oh

[00:49:39] Fonz: wow, that is a good one. Now, here in Texas, I could definitely see this being like a six parter, like as you're driving by, and then it just kind of continues and builds on.

[00:49:49] So definitely. That is a great one, Jonathan. I'm glad that we caught that and I got this, and I can re-listen to that one because that was a great, great share. All right, Jonathan, last question to you. Let's say that this is the [00:50:00] Art of ISS podcast, or the Jonathan Cranford podcast. Whichever the case, just throwing it out there may, maybe it might be something that you might be interested in, but let's say that I was a guest on your show.

[00:50:10] What would be one question you'd like to ask me?

[00:50:13] Johnathan: Okay. So I know you're an ed tech guy originally, and you're, you're a technology guy, so, um, if there was a technology you could invent to assist with school discipline, what would it be?

[00:50:26] Fonz: Ooh. Technology to assist with school discipline. Hmm. Actually, you know what, actually, you know what?

[00:50:36] Based on your practice and the way that you run things, and you have this, you know, your, your own way of doing this through that edible, whether it's a Google sheet or you know, spreadsheet. . I don't know. Maybe why not? Since this is something that is within your realm that you can add to what you're doing.

[00:50:58] Come up with an actual [00:51:00] learning management system to manage in school suspension to make things a lot easier. And you can do with what you're saying, you know how you want it, where you don't have to be traveling all over the place. Everything will go directly the way that you want it. So I can see something like this working fairly well.

[00:51:17] Because you said you're working with. , 12 kids, eight teachers each. And in this learning management system, all they'll do is just go ahead and pop in what they need to do. And it's all in one place rather than you maybe going through that spreadsheet and then you have to go to Google Classroom, then you have to go to aph Foria, then you've gotta do this, and so on.

[00:51:36] So I can definitely see right now I was thinking, yeah, there could be a little something there happening. So yeah, definitely. in school suspension, l m s to make things a lot easier for you, my friend. For sure. And for not, not just you, but for all ISS teachers that are out there. Thank

[00:51:53] Johnathan: you. I love it. You need to make it now.

[00:51:55] Go make it. Yeah. Now

[00:51:56] Fonz: we need to. We need to definitely. Well, Jonathan, listen, it has been an honor. It's [00:52:00] been a pleasure. Thank you so much for just this, uh, you know, the wealth of knowledge that you share today. Your passion obviously is definitely seen. Through the way that you shared, you know, about the art of in-school suspension through your experience.

[00:52:14] And I'm very thankful for you to take, uh, you know, for you taking the time to join us here, this wonderful morning. And I'm thankful that you're a part of the Maya Tech Life podcast. So thank you so much for your time. And again, best way that our listeners can go ahead and get ahold of you, what, you know, give us a, you know, what would be the best.

[00:52:33] Johnathan: They can email me through the website, the art of iss.com. Uh, or you can find me on Twitter at, I'm not on Twitter as much, uh, these days, but Jay Money Cranford is the, uh, is my Twitter handle. I'm on Facebook. Um, you know, just. Uh, through my author webpage. You can Google me. Um, I'm, I'm, I'm pretty easy to find.

[00:52:53] You can just, you know, catch me on one of those, any of those platforms, I'll, I'll, I'll check 'em. Um, but right now I'm trying to get people [00:53:00] to contact me through the website just so they're interested in, in a workshop or something.

[00:53:03] Fonz: Perfect. And again, that website is the art of iss. Dot com. So please make sure that you check it out.

[00:53:09] And again, make contact with Jonathan a wealth of information. And again, just seeing things from a different fresh perspective. So thank you again, Jonathan, and again, to all our audience members that we're watching. Those of you that'll be catching this on the replay. Thank you as always. For all of your support, please make sure that you like, share and follow

[00:53:27] us on all social media. Make sure that you, check out our website@myedtech.life, Maya tech.life, where you can check out this episode and the other 159 amazing episodes with wonderful educators, creators. That you can learn from. You can take a little bit of that knowledge that they share, sprinkle it onto what you are already doing.

[00:53:47] Great. And also, if you'd like to contribute to our mission of connecting educators and creators one show at a time, please make sure you stop by our store. We've got some great merch here. We've got some my ed tech life gear, [00:54:00] for conference season. It's already right around the corner. Things that you can lounge in, and again, all your contributions go back into this show so we can continue to make this show better and better each.

[00:54:10] For you. So thank you as always. And don't forget my friends, stay techy.